Porsche wants 50% of its sales to be fully electric or electrified by 2025

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Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
My German car loving friends are gonna hate this one... Will Tesla and Google Kill the German Car?
Tesla retrofitted a WW2 aircraft carrier?
Dang! The USS Ticonderoga pic was in regard to my wife's uncle, who just passed away. He was a Naval Officer on the Ticonderoga. I hate computers... The correct link: Will Tesla and Google Kill the German car? This is a long read from Spiegel SE discussing the powerful German car manufacturers.
 
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Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
My German car loving friends are gonna hate this one... Will Tesla and Google Kill the German Car?
Tesla retrofitted a WW2 aircraft carrier?
Dang! The USS Ticonderoga pic was in regard to my wife's uncle, who just passed away. He was a Naval Officer on the Ticonderoga. I hate computers... The correct link: Will Tesla and Google Kill the German car? This is a long read from Spiegel SE discussing the powerful German car manufacturers.
lol..I updated my response just as you replied to it. In any case I agree 100 percent the Germans are in trouble. They built their brands on performance, safety, and technology while traveling at speeds over 100 mph for hours on end. Their customers cared about that. I care about that (although I typically drive 80-85 mph when the circumstances allow it, but sometimes I've pushed triple digits) ! In the world of EV, high highway speeds are not even on the radar of the consumer let along the high end consumer because they rarely if ever road trip and consequently lease. Range really isn't an issue because these high end customers have the ability to charge at home. Basically with the likes of Tesla, there really are less and less reasons why a high end customer would buy a luxury german sedan. VW will have an easier time but their luxury brand Audi will not. Now something that is happening which I find disturbing is that BMW is offering options on a subscription basis rather than allowing the customer to pay for them up front. Imagine thing: Navigation? $40/mo. Sat radio? $30/mo. Apple Carplay? $20/mo I know for myself, if I ever end up buying an EV it will not be a luxury german brand because I know I'll be limited to 70 mph on the highway if I ever want to road trip and they're freaking crazy if they think I'm going to ever stop for 30 mins to recharge. Side note: Tesla really isn't a player until they can start churning out profitable earnings. This is another reason why they're so far ahead of the Germans.
 
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JOD

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wow, that's a great article, and it paints an accurately bleak picture of the German auto industry (and German as a whole--had no idea that 4% of their jobs were related to auto manufacturing). I'm sure that many on here will read this article while clutching their pistons and arguing with the general conclusion that the ICE is a dead man walking, but I think it's 100% on point. VW is the one manufacturer who has realized this, albeit a bit late, so they have a chance. I don't really hold out much hope though for the rest at this point. My guess: in 20 years or less, Geely and/or BYD will be picking up the scraps of Mercedes and BMW, and in 40 years the ICE will be relegated to the 4th world, museums, and local tracks for nostalgia. I found this to be one of the more alarming quotes: "Daimler fears that Amazon's Alexa or Google Assistant might one day spread beyond peoples' homes and find their way into cars. Khan wants to make sure people to use "Hey Mercedes" when they order a pizza on the go and not other companies' services." Alphabet is on the road to perfecting self-driving cars and Daimler is busy trying to fight a battle on voice recognition that it's 1) already lost and 2) has a fraction of the resources to fight? This sounds like the death rattle of a company to me.
 
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Originally Posted by JOD
wow, that's a great article, and it paints an accurately bleak picture of the German auto industry (and German as a whole--had no idea that 4% of their jobs were related to auto manufacturing). I'm sure that many on here will read this article while clutching their pistons and arguing with the general conclusion that the ICE is a dead man walking, but I think it's 100% on point. VW is the one manufacturer who has realized this, albeit a bit late, so they have a chance. I don't really hold out much hope though for the rest at this point. My guess: in 20 years or less, Geely and/or BYD will be picking up the scraps of Mercedes and BMW, and in 40 years the ICE will be relegated to the 4th world, museums, and local tracks for nostalgia. I found this to be one of the more alarming quotes: "Daimler fears that Amazon's Alexa or Google Assistant might one day spread beyond peoples' homes and find their way into cars. Khan wants to make sure people to use "Hey Mercedes" when they order a pizza on the go and not other companies' services." Alphabet is on the road to perfecting self-driving cars and Daimler is busy trying to fight a battle on voice recognition that it's 1) already lost and 2) has a fraction of the resources to fight? This sounds like the death rattle of a company to me.
Google realized years ago that the car created a sort of wall between them and the occupants. Self driving, under the guise of safety smirk2 allows Google or whomever to gain access to users because they 'the users' are theoretically free from having to concentrate on driving. They effectively want to convert the automobile into a semi-autonomous form of public transit. The art of driving is slowly losing its allure.
 
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Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
My German car loving friends are gonna hate this one... Will Tesla and Google Kill the German Car?
Tesla retrofitted a WW2 aircraft carrier?
Dang! The USS Ticonderoga pic was in regard to my wife's uncle, who just passed away. He was a Naval Officer on the Ticonderoga. I hate computers... The correct link: Will Tesla and Google Kill the German car? This is a long read from Spiegel SE discussing the powerful German car manufacturers.
lol..I updated my response just as you replied to it. In any case I agree 100 percent the Germans are in trouble. They built their brands on performance, safety, and technology while traveling at speeds over 100 mph for hours on end. Their customers cared about that. I care about that (although I typically drive 80-85 mph when the circumstances allow it, but sometimes I've pushed triple digits) ! In the world of EV, high highway speeds are not even on the radar of the consumer let along the high end consumer because they rarely if ever road trip and consequently lease. Range really isn't an issue because these high end customers have the ability to charge at home. Basically with the likes of Tesla, there really are less and less reasons why a high end customer would buy a luxury german sedan. VW will have an easier time but their luxury brand Audi will not. Now something that is happening which I find disturbing is that BMW is offering options on a subscription basis rather than allowing the customer to pay for them up front. Imagine thing: Navigation? $40/mo. Sat radio? $30/mo. Apple Carplay? $20/mo I know for myself, if I ever end up buying an EV it will not be a luxury german brand because I know I'll be limited to 70 mph on the highway if I ever want to road trip and they're freaking crazy if they think I'm going to ever stop for 30 mins to recharge. Side note: Tesla really isn't a player until they can start churning out profitable earnings. This is another reason why they're so far ahead of the Germans.
I can see myself buying a cheap full-electric for use in the city. I think we will be shamed into doing this, depending on where you live. I live in the hub of this, in Canada... Canada's Wet, Left coastal city of Vancouver. However, they will have to drag my enthusiast ICE cars and motorcycle out of my cold, dead hands. I really celebrate the art and skill of driving.
 
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I would not count out the Germans. The German government will certainly help; they prioritize high employment. Perhaps a BMW Mercedes alliance makes sense, as the article alluded to. The Germans have a formidible automobile history and engineering. I am surprised they haven't built a better competitor to the Tesla Model 3 which is the market leader by far. Model 3 Sales in Germany
 

JOD

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Originally Posted by Cdn17Sport6MT
I can see myself buying a cheap full-electric for use in the city. I think we will be shamed into doing this, depending on where you live. I live in the hub of this, in Canada... Canada's Wet, Left coastal city of Vancouver. However, they will have to drag my enthusiast ICE cars and motorcycle out of my cold, dead hands. I really celebrate the art and skill of driving.
Well, that's the thing. Eventually, you're going to die, and prying won't be so difficult at that point. Me too! And so will move of the people who are going to respond to my post to tell me how wrong I am... Yes, younger car enthusiasts wedded to the ICE are out there, but they're not nearly large enough in number to keep ICE production above anything meaningful. The auto industry relies on scale--which is what really makes Tesla's very existence completely shocking. When production of ICE significantly drops, the sub suppliers are not going to be able to keep the doors open. Eventually, you'll have expensive bespoke engines produced for rich enthusiasts, and that's pretty much going to be it. I think we have to realize that the number of people who really car about cars is actually pretty small, and those that really car about the ICE are an even smaller number. Most people just want to get where they're going as conveniently as possible.
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
I would not count out the Germans. The German government will certainly help; they prioritize high employment. Perhaps a BMW Mercedes alliance makes sense, as the article alluded to. The Germans have a formidible automobile history and engineering. I am surprised they haven't built a better competitor to the Tesla Model 3 which is the market leader by far. Model 3 Sales in Germany
Quite frankly, I think that's the problem. I mean, Kodak made great cameras, and was a pioneer in digital photography in the 70's! And yet.... Germany's auto industry is predicated upon building great cars. The companies that are going to win 50 years from now are focusing on building mobility solutions, and while there's some overlap, they're really not the same thing. Companies that are newer to the game, like BYD and Tesla fully understand this reality, while companies in Germany are still primarily focused on next year's labor contracts. Out of all of the companies in Germany, it seems VW is the only one that is really going to be in a position to compete. To your very point, none of the German companies have built a better Model 3 for one very simple reason: they can't! The reasons why are laid out pretty well in that article you linked. Lots of navel gazing chasing unattainable goals with diesel. When you spend 2 decades trying to build a better mousetrap, and new companies come in with a different perspective, this is one of the potential results. I mean, right now they're looking at how to build good electric cars. BYD and Didi are looking at owning the car share and mobility space. I'm just not sure the mindset is there to truly be competitive in what the market will be in 40 years. Time will tell, but I think the general conclusion of the article is right: most of the companies will either end up being suppliers to more forward-thinking companies, or they'll whither and die.
 
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Originally Posted by JOD
Originally Posted by Cdn17Sport6MT
I can see myself buying a cheap full-electric for use in the city. I think we will be shamed into doing this, depending on where you live. I live in the hub of this, in Canada... Canada's Wet, Left coastal city of Vancouver. However, they will have to drag my enthusiast ICE cars and motorcycle out of my cold, dead hands. I really celebrate the art and skill of driving.
Well, that's the thing. Eventually, you're going to die, and prying won't be so difficult at that point. Me too! And so will move of the people who are going to respond to my post to tell me how wrong I am... Yes, younger car enthusiasts wedded to the ICE are out there, but they're not nearly large enough in number to keep ICE production above anything meaningful. The auto industry relies on scale--which is what really makes Tesla's very existence completely shocking. When production of ICE significantly drops, the sub suppliers are not going to be able to keep the doors open. Eventually, you'll have expensive bespoke engines produced for rich enthusiasts, and that's pretty much going to be it. I think we have to realize that the number of people who really car about cars is actually pretty small, and those that really car about the ICE are an even smaller number. Most people just want to get where they're going as conveniently as possible.
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
I would not count out the Germans. The German government will certainly help; they prioritize high employment. Perhaps a BMW Mercedes alliance makes sense, as the article alluded to. The Germans have a formidible automobile history and engineering. I am surprised they haven't built a better competitor to the Tesla Model 3 which is the market leader by far. Model 3 Sales in Germany
Quite frankly, I think that's the problem. I mean, Kodak made great cameras, and was a pioneer in digital photography in the 70's! And yet.... Germany's auto industry is predicated upon building great cars. The companies that are going to win 50 years from now are focusing on building mobility solutions, and while there's some overlap, they're really not the same thing. Companies that are newer to the game, like BYD and Tesla fully understand this reality, while companies in Germany are still primarily focused on next year's labor contracts. Out of all of the companies in Germany, it seems VW is the only one that is really going to be in a position to compete. To your very point, none of the German companies have built a better Model 3 for one very simple reason: they can't! The reasons why are laid out pretty well in that article you linked. Lots of navel gazing chasing unattainable goals with diesel. When you spend 2 decades trying to build a better mousetrap, and new companies come in with a different perspective, this is one of the potential results. I mean, right now they're looking at how to build good electric cars. BYD and Didi are looking at owning the car share and mobility space. I'm just not sure the mindset is there to truly be competitive in what the market will be in 40 years. Time will tell, but I think the general conclusion of the article is right: most of the companies will either end up being suppliers to more forward-thinking companies, or they'll whither and die.
I know I'm a broken record but Tesla investors still don't demand that it becomes profitable. They just don't care. That's a huge difference. 15 yrs and not one year in the black.
 
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Originally Posted by Rmay635703
For a car nobody owns there sure are a lot of posts here on this Must be bobistheporscheguy
True. We bought the Tesla last December for a number of reasons, one of which was the futuristic technology along with it being an EV. Now with all the talk about EVs replacing ICE and such, I find it fascinating. Acceptance to change is always a rough ride... I wanna see what Tesla does next along with how other manufacturers play catch up. Silicon valley folks are tech OCD.
 
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Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
Acceptance to change is always a rough ride... I wanna see what Tesla does next along with how other manufacturers play catch up. Silicon valley folks are tech OCD.
Acceptance of price and range limitations remain the issues. People readily accept a better product.
 
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Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
...Silicon valley folks are tech OCD.
Our MCS son is with Google HQ in Sunnyvale. It is almost a different world from coastal Orange County in many ways. Down here many affluent motorists ostensibly enjoy their hybrid and electric machines. Cachet? Up there many affluent motorists evidently enjoy their hybrid and electric vehicles. OCD? relevant disclosure: my current Porsche is ICE-equipped. smile
 
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