Poor control of ethanol content hurts consumers

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United We Stand

JHZR2

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Interesting. Lots of discussion of this with the BMW N54 twin turbo engines with DI - some speculation that higher than 10% ethanol content is cause of the failures of the HPFP.
 
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 Originally Posted By: Pablo
No wonder some people's 2 stroke engines run like garbage!
Yeah! I noticed mine run like garbage - even my BRAND new chainsaw!
 
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So is this just a splash-blending problem, where the ethanol doesn't get fully mixed when it's added to the tanker truck, or are these stations intentionally trying to rip people off?
 
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Ethanol is federally subsidized, so I imagine real economics don't come into play here? My workplace had terrible problems with supply formulation problems when we switched to Bio diesel a few years ago, so I can imagine this ethanol thing happening too.
 
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 Originally Posted By: brianl703
Rip people off? Isn't ethanol more expensive than the gas it displaces?
Depends on the price of oil. With $35 a barrel oil, ethanol is definitely more expensive. At $70 a barrel oil, ethanol is cheaper.
 
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I'm aware of the true cost of ethanol to consumers (gov't subsidies etc.), I'm speaking of the wholesale price of gas compared to ethanol and the incentive it gives to unscrupulous station owners to cheat. Please excuse the poor resolution of this graph, I couldn't find a better one. The higher gas prices go in relation to ethanol, the more attractive cheating becomes.
 
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Using the most recent numbers on that graph, a gallon of E10 gas would have a wholesale cost of $2.01 A gallon of E50 gas would have a wholesale cost of $1.90 Selling a gallon of E50 as E10 would give a shady station an extra profit of 11 cents per gallon.
 
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Stations do not blend the fuels. The fuels are blended at the refinery before they are sent to the terminal (usually a truck terminal). In certain areas (like where I live now) the Shell, Conoco walmart, grocerystore chains, Fina and the mom and pop shops all get there gasoline fron the same refinery (Western in Bloomfieldeld NM). The only thing seperating the brand names is the particular proprietary additive package for each brand that is added at the truck loading rack while the fuel is being loaded into the tank. An issue with ethanol could be stratification and seperation in the retail tanks. High volume stations are a nice hedge against this. This pic shows the territiry I live and work in now along with the common distribution truck.
 
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Cup of Joe

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 Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
High volume stations are a nice hedge against this.
The refinery in Yorktown VA supplies most of the fuel for the area. Last time the refinery changed hands it was reported at 60k barrels per day of production. The state Ag dept has yet to name any stations. A local TV station found 1 family that filled 2 cars at 1 gas station, both had problems. It was a high volume BJ's in the area. According to reports so far the ethonal is additional above and beyond the 10% maximum. Total complaints has gone up to 230+ as of wednesday.
 
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Queensland messed up the delivery of Fluoride into their water treatment facilities...by around 1000 percent. People got a bit sick, but the official line was that there was no "harm" done. You tend to define harm on your personal experience, when you either deliver it or receive it.
 
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I really wish more stations had blender pumps. Then you wouldn't have to worry about stratification or separation problems. Whatever blend you chose would be mixed right there at the pump.
 
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