Polyisobutylene in 2 stroke oil

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mjo

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I've read several articles that claim that this polyisobutylene, added in minute quantities to gasoline, increases fuel economy around 20%. I did a search yesterday and found out that some 2 stroke oils have this compound. Particularly the synthetic "smokeless" variety. I'm not familiar with the different brands of 2-stroke oil out there except the Amsoil and TORCO (which aren't available at Autozone). Would anyone know which brands are available over the counter with PIB? Also, has anyone found PIB to work as claimed? Thanks in advance.
 

mjo

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I know they also make a kind of self-agglomerating tape used to seal ?pipe? that is almost pure PIB. But I'm more interested in PIB that's formulated for gasoline and thus doesn't form deposits in the combustion chamber when injected.
 
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Could one use one of the 2-cycle oils that contain PIB and mix it in the gasoline to get the benefits, or would the oil itself cause more problems with the blasted emissions' systems?
 
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PIB's are used as a thickener or a base oil where no carbon build up is needed upon burning of the oil. Other than no carbon residue and food grade light color use in a fuel would not be a improvement. 2 stroke oils use PIB to replace heavy bright stock which is needed for anti scuff lubrication propeties sustituting PIB for Bright will offer a low smoke and low ash oil. bruce
 
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One can always count on ya bruce381 to tell the facts. Thanks. I'll save my money for Halloween stuff and not blow colored smoke.
 

mjo

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quote:
Originally posted by Dad2leia: One can always count on ya bruce381 to tell the facts. Thanks. I'll save my money for Halloween stuff and not blow colored smoke.
First of all, don't be so presumptuous Dad2leia. There's no evidence to suggest that the people who have replied so far have tested this. Secondly, there are plenty of things that have more than one use. Just because the chemical is used for lubrication doesn't mean it won't provide other benefits.
 
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Well, I guess that I was, sorry. What other benefits, other than a top end lubricant and fuel enhancement, would using this be for then? Is this product available OTC as straight PIB, or does it only come in the whole 2-cycle oil package? I somehow don't think using 2-cycle oil in the tank of an automobile on a regular basis could possibly be good for the emission controls.
 
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"I've read several articles that claim that this polyisobutylene, added in minute quantities to gasoline, increases fuel economy around 20%." [LOL!] Nothing short of driving down hill will give a 20% improvement in MPG. If you want some PIB to fool with email me I'll send you a quart (free)to play with but trust me if it does anything more than smoke I'll be surprised. bruce
 
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quote:
Originally posted by DJ: Isn't that a signifigant component of Lucas UCL?
And FP60?
 

mjo

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quote:
Originally posted by bruce381: "I've read several articles that claim that this polyisobutylene, added in minute quantities to gasoline, increases fuel economy around 20%." [LOL!] Nothing short of driving down hill will give a 20% improvement in MPG. If you want some PIB to fool with email me I'll send you a quart (free)to play with but trust me if it does anything more than smoke I'll be surprised. bruce
Thanks Bruce. I'd take you up on your offer but I've read somewhere that pure PIB isn't suitable without some additives. Otherwise the pure PIB will leave deposits on the cylinder walls. I'd much rather try it in some 2-stroke oil. I wouldn't need much, and the little bit of oil added to the gasoline would probably help the fuel pump and injectors a little.
 
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Typical 2 stroke formulation is ashless or ash depending on water craft (ashless) motor cycle, chain saw etc (ash). The detergent (ash or ashless) keeps things clean and prevents rust etc. 5-10% The base of the lube is heavy base (600N) oil 40-50% With a 10-20% of 150 bright stock or PIB for piston anti scuff properties. PIB will give a cleaner burn, less smoke and less deposit formation since PIB burns off clean. Then to help in fuel mixing a solvent is added like mineral spirts. 20-30% So other than working as a lube a small amount how much? (what have you read?) of PIB will not do much for fuel increases but in diesel fuel it will help with pumps and injector wear problems then will burn clean give try it and post back. good luck bruce
 
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Echo Power Blend 2 cycle oil is 20-40% polybutene per the MSDS & it's available at Home Depot in my area. This is a low ash formulation for air cooled 2 stroke engines, so continual use in the lower combustion chamber temps of a 4 stroke engine will no doubt lead to some spark plug deposits.
 

mjo

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quote:
Originally posted by bruce381: So other than working as a lube a small amount how much? (what have you read?) of PIB will not do much for fuel increases but in diesel fuel it will help with pumps and injector wear problems then will burn clean give try it and post back. good luck bruce
When I did a google search there were a bunch of articles that said basically the same thing. That PIB was considered along with MTBE as an emissions reducer but PIB was rejected because MTBE was backed by the oil companies. All except one article says that 10ppm PIB results in 20% better mileage, 10% more power, 70% less emissions (the other article claiming a 1:1000 ratio was best). Other claims were lower combustion temperatures and reducing the fuel soaking the cylinder walls. So, I'm willing to try a little PIB-containing 2-stroke oil in my gas tank to see if all of these articles are correct or full of hot air. The little bit of oil and solvent that will come with the PIB shouldn't be a problem since we are talking about a very small dosage. If it works, I will sound the trumpets, fire the cannons and report back to you.
 
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quote:
Originally posted by bruce381: Typical 2 stroke formulation is ashless or ash depending on water craft (ashless) motor cycle, chain saw etc (ash). The detergent (ash or ashless) keeps things clean and prevents rust etc. 5-10% The base of the lube is heavy base (600N) oil 40-50% With a 10-20% of 150 bright stock or PIB for piston anti scuff properties. PIB will give a cleaner burn, less smoke and less deposit formation since PIB burns off clean. Then to help in fuel mixing a solvent is added like mineral spirts. 20-30% So other than working as a lube a small amount how much? (what have you read?) of PIB will not do much for fuel increases but in diesel fuel it will help with pumps and injector wear problems then will burn clean give try it and post back. good luck bruce
Well I knew there was something good about my using ashless 2-stroke oil in my diesel fuel every once in a while (in small quantities) when I dont have something else. Now I know the reason. Thanks!!
 
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Ok, with all of the new information being said, I just might have to try a little 2-cycle oil in the tank, what have I got to lose, other than maybe a little bit of performance!??!
 
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PIB has a flash point of double typical Diesel fuel and would't provide and doesn;t lubricate very well on its own. Blending it with fuel in a vehicle application would certainly raise cylinder and exhaust temps do to the fact is still burning when the exhaust valve opens. Hence manufactures call this the burn off additive. It does't burn with smoke and burns off smoke from the other components. It works best as a synergistic additive, but not sure about it in a pure form. I'm planning to do some tests with it on diesel generator that monitors fuel consumption at a locked load. Will report back with the results at the dose hypothesized.
 
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