It's around 10 degrees today and I can tell my Jeep 4.0 I6 engine is struggling a little at start up with the M1 10w-30. I stopped at Autozone and couldn't find any GC 0W-30, which seems to be the latest rave on this site. They did have 0W-30 in the M1 flavor, so I got it. What are your thoughts on this oil? I need to keep telling myself that it's the same oil, just a lot thinner in extreme cold temps. Wish me luck tonight when the temps probably drop to single digits and I'm laying out in my snow packed driveway with my flashlight, changing my oil.
Please quell my fears with M1 0W-30
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It's not the oil, it's the battery. You can easily confirm this by simply taking the battery home with you overnight. 10'F is not very cold, 10W-30 should be fine. Especially Mobil 1.
If you insist, though, I strongly recommend you use M1 0W-40 instead of 0W-30. 0W-40 has produced very good wear numbers in this engine, check UOA section. You will have higher bearing wear with 0W-30.
The Mobil 1 tends to shear more than the 5w30 and 10w30.
A good combo would be to run 10w30 in the spring summer and the 0w30 fall winter.
I don't think you should put anything thinner than 5W30 in a Jeep 4.0. I know I won't. Mine's running 10W30 Chevron dino and it's been starting and running fine...even in the mountains a while back at 10* or so.
I agree with vvk, it's the battery. Change that rather than your oil. M1 10w-30 is plenty thin, even at -10F.
I'd go to the 5W-30, although the 0W-30's are looking mighty fine in the UOA department. I just know from reading on this post that the 0W-30 is a pretty big spread so it will have a lot more polymers added to it. Especially if your wanting to extend the drains to the max, like around 6 to 7K.
Thanks guys. Hopefully Autozone will let me return the opened case of 0W30. Looks like I'll run the 10w30 out for another 2000 miles.
Well, last week it was -42 F, though today it warmed up to a balmy 4 F. Better find my trunks.
I run Mobil 1 0W-30 in winter and Mobil 1 10W-30 in summer. I agree the 0W-30 has a far superior MRV BPT (-58 F vs -42 F), but you have to trade that with a rather thin HTHS.
I worry about BPT as my 2000 GMC Sierra with Vortec 5.3 made knocking sounds from new. At -10 F, when the motor had on about 1,000km / 600mi, the factory-fill "low bidder" 5W-30 took about 15 secs to register oil pressure. Very sluggish pressure rise too.
The Vortec is a rear sump oil pan, with the oil pump mounted to the front of the crank. That makes for a VERY long oil pickup tube.
I hadn't quite broken in the motor yet, so I changed the oil to a conventional 5W-30 before some long trips. Still made that knocking noise, and at -20 F I parked it inside my heated shop. Why take chances??
When I had on 1,000mi / 1,600km, I figured the break-in was done and immediately changed to Mobil 1 0W-30. No more knock, instant oil pressure cold.
I think the GM Vortec truck motors are sensitive to BPT. Even if I am getting somewhat more wear running the 0W-30, I would be getting one h*** of a lot MORE wear with dry starts and KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK.
Get your battery load tested! THen get either an AC Delco Freedom Battery, Interstate or Champion stay away from any battery that says "Exide" on it.
I am with 15 minutes of two different airports. One was reporting -5F the other was reporting 1F. My car fired up instantly with no hesitation at all. I am running 5W40 in it. The garden tractor has 15W40 Castrol Synthetic Blend in uit and it fires up first try as well! THe wife had the other half of the drive way blowed by the time I arrived homw from work!
You need to check your battery and the positive cable as well. You could also have a starter that is going bad.
Where is the proof or data that Mobil 1 sheers any more than amsoil?
Simply look up the specifications that ExxonMobil posts at their public-domain URL.
The Mobil 1 0W-30 has a HTHS of 2.99 mPa s @ 150 C
The Mobil 1 10W-30 has a HTHS of 3.17 mPa s @ 150 C
Amsoil Series 2000 0W-30 has a HTHS of 3.5 mPa s @ 150 C
FYI according to the SAE J300 test, the HTHS (This is a high-shear test) for a 30 grade oil at 150 C should be 2.9 - 3.9 mPa s.
I use Mobil 1 0W-30 in my 2000 GMC Sierra Vortec 5.3 as the design of this motor appears sensitive to BPT.
The M1 0W-30 has a rated MRV BPT (Lowest temperature to reach yield stress of 60,000 cP) of -58 F. The Amsoil S2K 0W-30 has far superior HTHS but has a rated MRV BPT of "only" -40 F.
If I didn't live in such a nasty cold climate, I would run something like Delvac 1 or a good Amsoil all year round.
There are always trade-offs to MRV BPT and HTHS, so you have to make a judgement call and figure out your priorities. Last week it was -42 F so everybody can guess my priority in winter, right? ![[Wink]](images/icons/wink.gif)
Jerry
Jerry
quote:
Originally posted by scooter996: Where is the proof or data that Mobil 1 sheers any more than amsoil?
I have Ford 3.0L V6 running M1 10-30. A few weeks ago it was -20 and I noticed that instead of starting after 1-2 seconds, it took 2-4 seconds and cranked a little slower (2 year old battery).
Since we occasionally get below 0 and above 100, I have decided to do 2 changes per year (5-7k interval) and just use M1 10-30 with a Napa Gold filter. I pay someone else to do the labor and it works out about the same money as 3 changes of dino annually, and results in a better quality oil.
Wow amazing I guess amsoil is a better product, though I wonder why it isnt factory fill or approved for major manufacturers cars? hm
![[Smile]](images/icons/smile.gif){kind=icon}
quote:That is some interesting information. I have been using Pennzoil Long Life 0W30 blend (group II+ and PAO) this winter in my daily driver. Although I am in an area not quite as cold as you, it has worked well to temps down in the -35C range so far. How does this oil compare to the Mobil 1 OW30? The below specs are from Pennzoil's site. Pennzoil Long Life OW30 blend HTHS of 3.45 cP @ 150 C Pumping Viscosity (MRV TP-1) 17,874 cP @ -40 C Does anyone know how GC compares to Mobil 1 for cold weather specs?
Originally posted by heyjay: Simply look up the specifications that ExxonMobil posts at their public-domain URL. The Mobil 1 0W-30 has a HTHS of 2.99 mPa s @ 150 C The Mobil 1 10W-30 has a HTHS of 3.17 mPa s @ 150 C Amsoil Series 2000 0W-30 has a HTHS of 3.5 mPa s @ 150 C FYI according to the SAE J300 test, the HTHS (This is a high-shear test) for a 30 grade oil at 150 C should be 2.9 - 3.9 mPa s. I use Mobil 1 0W-30 in my 2000 GMC Sierra Vortec 5.3 as the design of this motor appears sensitive to BPT. The M1 0W-30 has a rated MRV BPT (Lowest temperature to reach yield stress of 60,000 cP) of -58 F. The Amsoil S2K 0W-30 has far superior HTHS but has a rated MRV BPT of "only" -40 F. If I didn't live in such a nasty cold climate, I would run something like Delvac 1 or a good Amsoil all year round. There are always trade-offs to MRV BPT and HTHS, so you have to make a judgement call and figure out your priorities. Last week it was -42 F so everybody can guess my priority in winter, right?
DING!
![[Big Grin]](images/icons/grin.gif)
Mostly towing heavy loads (Skidder tires, small tractor, etc) and mostly in summer: 7,200 - 8,800 lbs according to the scale.
I hope my UOA stays okey-dokey, perhaps GM using roller lifters and needle bearings in the rockers helps out here. Flat tappets get cranky if under a lot of stress and the HTHS is too thin
Jerry
Mostly towing heavy loads (Skidder tires, small tractor, etc) and mostly in summer: 7,200 - 8,800 lbs according to the scale.
I hope my UOA stays okey-dokey, perhaps GM using roller lifters and needle bearings in the rockers helps out here. Flat tappets get cranky if under a lot of stress and the HTHS is too thin
Jerry
quote:
Originally posted by haley10: Jerry, unless you are towing at long mileage, I don't see 2.99 HT/HS as a problem.![[I dont know]](/forums/graemlins/dunno.gif)
Well, I've started using Amsoil HDD 5W-30 in one of my commercial trucks with a Cummins motor. It will take 3-4 years to see how that turns out. Running Amsoil spin-on primary and BE bypass filters, so will only change the oil when UOA tells me to.
My other commercial trucks run Delvac 1 5W-40 with OEM primary filters and Gulf Coast bypass filters. Only do a sump drain when UOA tells me to.
LD trucks and cars are a different beast, simply due to "economies of scale." It would be a financial disaster if every car owner, heck even more than 10%, decided to take REALLY good care of their car so it lasted 20 years or +300,000 miles.
The name of the game is "turnover" and the dealer would be happiest if nobody changed their oil and traded every 18 months.
As I'm sure you've noticed, Mobil 1 actually IS factory fill on some cars. These cars are usually exotic, very $$$, and limited production.
I don't think DC or Porsche expects the person who buys a $110,000 car to ignore it or trade every 2-4 years: this is an exclusive and very high-end customer relationship that us mere mortals can only dream of.
quote:
Originally posted by scooter996: Wow amazing I guess amsoil is a better product, though I wonder why it isnt factory fill or approved for major manufacturers cars? hm
Good question. First, I'm sure you've noticed that -35 C is a real b**** to deal with, right? You have my sympathies.
The Pennzoil appears to have superior HTHS. The MRV can be performed at a specific temp or you can do an "absolute" or MRV BPT.
The Pennzoil MRV at -40 C is 17,874 cP. The Mobil 1 "SuperSyn" 0W-30 MRV at -40C is 16,250 cP. Not that big a difference: 25,000 cP vs 16,250 cP would be a big difference.
In 1996, the Mobil 1 "Tri synthetic" 0W-30 MRV at -40 C was 12,900 though its HTHS was quite bad.
Remember: these are "representative" samples of virgin oil. These numbers can change quite a bit with use. Typically, as an oil ages and gets loaded with acids, soots, etc, it will thicken.
That was a big problem when HD diesel truck motors were redesigned for emissions controls: all the soot that went out the stack stayed in the oil. Sometimes the oil turned into tar.
Sorry, don't have the specs for GC.
Jerry
quote:
Originally posted by Oldswagon: [QUOTE]Originally posted by heyjay: [qb] That is some interesting information. I have been using Pennzoil Long Life 0W30 blend (group II+ and PAO) this winter in my daily driver. Although I am in an area not quite as cold as you, it has worked well to temps down in the -35C range so far. How does this oil compare to the Mobil 1 OW30? The below specs are from Pennzoil's site. Pennzoil Long Life OW30 blend HTHS of 3.45 cP @ 150 C Pumping Viscosity (MRV TP-1) 17,874 cP @ -40 C Does anyone know how GC compares to Mobil 1 for cold weather specs?
quote:Yes, -35C isn't fun, but it's the -50C windchill that's worse! Those winds are just brutal on anyone outside for any length of time. At least this weekend it's finally warmed up to reasonable temperatures. Thanks for that info on the oil. It's too bad that Pennzoil doesn't list the MRV BPT, but at least I can see that it is somewhat comparable to the Mobil 1 0W30 SS since you have it's specs for -40. Where did you get those numbers for the mobil oil? I couldn't find them on their website. I realize that these are ideal numbers for a nice clean virgin sample, which is why I want to try to find an excellent cold weather oil. That way when it does have a few miles on it, I know it still should offer good start-up protection. I tend to run short intervals in the winter anyway. These winters are just too harsh on the oil to leave it in there for any length of time. Does anyone else have the MRV BPT for GC? I wonder how it compares to other 0W30's?
Originally posted by heyjay: Good question. First, I'm sure you've noticed that -35 C is a real b**** to deal with, right? You have my sympathies. The Pennzoil appears to have superior HTHS. The MRV can be performed at a specific temp or you can do an "absolute" or MRV BPT. The Pennzoil MRV at -40 C is 17,874 cP. The Mobil 1 "SuperSyn" 0W-30 MRV at -40C is 16,250 cP. Not that big a difference: 25,000 cP vs 16,250 cP would be a big difference. In 1996, the Mobil 1 "Tri synthetic" 0W-30 MRV at -40 C was 12,900 though its HTHS was quite bad. Remember: these are "representative" samples of virgin oil. These numbers can change quite a bit with use. Typically, as an oil ages and gets loaded with acids, soots, etc, it will thicken. That was a big problem when HD diesel truck motors were redesigned for emissions controls: all the soot that went out the stack stayed in the oil. Sometimes the oil turned into tar. Sorry, don't have the specs for GC. Jerry
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