Please Explain Viscosity in Simple Terms

Joined
Dec 20, 2021
Messages
116
Location
Dallas Texas
I apologize in advance, I have already searched the forum but I wasn't able to find a simple answer that made sense to me.

My problem is multi-grade motor oils...

In theory, a 10w40 will be a 10 weight when cold, and a 40 weight when hot, right?

If that's true, why are motor oils generally thinner when warm, and thicker when cold?

It seems like the opposite would be true based on the numbers...

Thanks in advance for putting up with my sophomoric questions!
 
Last edited:
Honey
Water

honey.jpg
 
In theory, a 10w40 will be a 10 weight when cold, and a 40 weight when hot, right?

If that's true, why are motor oils generally thinner when warm, and thicker when cold?

It seems like the opposite would be true based on the numbers...
The "W" (cold) viscosity rating is measured in a totally different way than the hot viscosity rating. They are not connected in any way.
 
Your multigrade oil has a prefix grade and a suffix grade. A single grade can have either a prefix or suffix. To avoid confusion, a multigrade can have only 1 prefix and 1 suffix. Since a 0w will meet or exceed 5w 10w 15w.... SAE doesn't want you to use a label that says 0w5w10w-30 oil.


sae-j300-engine-viscosity.jpg
 
I apologize in advance, I have already searched the forum but I wasn't able to find a simple answer that made sense to me.

My problem is multi-grade motor oils...

In theory, a 10w40 will be a 10 weight when cold, and a 40 weight when hot, right?

If that's true, why are motor oils generally thinner when warm, and thicker when cold?

It seems like the opposite would be true based on the numbers...

Thanks in advance for putting up with my sophomoric questions!
Being a multi-grade keeps the overall usable viscosity in a narrow range. Once cold - a 10W is easier to pump that a 40W. And at full temp 40W has higher MOFT than a 10W.
Screenshot (35).png
MULTIGRADEoilpng7becbd.png
 
I apologize in advance, I have already searched the forum but I wasn't able to find a simple answer that made sense to me.

My problem is multi-grade motor oils...

In theory, a 10w40 will be a 10 weight when cold, and a 40 weight when hot, right?

If that's true, why are motor oils generally thinner when warm, and thicker when cold?

It seems like the opposite would be true based on the numbers...

Thanks in advance for putting up with my sophomoric questions!
 
In theory, a 10w40 will be a 10 weight when cold, and a 40 weight when hot, right?
Nope the W rating is just a way to point out the pumpability of a lubricant, in order to be 0W a lubricant must pass the MRV and CCS tests at a certain threshold at -40 and -35C respectively for each W grade above that each pumpability test is performed at 5C higher, the W rating just means that the lubricant is considered pumpable down to a a certain temperature, and manufacturers must claim the lowest W rating the oil will pass. The W rating really says nothing else about how the lubricant will perform when it's "cold" in most of the US what's considered "cold" will likely be of very little insignificance whether you use 10W30, 5W30, or 0W30, at around freezing down to 0F I'd expect them all to have a similar viscosity they only get considerably thicker when they get extremely cold to the point where the oil starts to want to gel.
 
Nope the W rating is just a way to point out the pumpability of a lubricant, in order to be 0W a lubricant must pass the MRV and CCS tests at a certain threshold at -40 and -35C respectively for each W grade above that each pumpability test is performed at 5C higher, the W rating just means that the lubricant is considered pumpable down to a a certain temperature, and manufacturers must claim the lowest W rating the oil will pass. The W rating really says nothing else about how the lubricant will perform when it's "cold" in most of the US what's considered "cold" will likely be of very little insignificance whether you use 10W30, 5W30, or 0W30, at around freezing down to 0F I'd expect them all to have a similar viscosity they only get considerably thicker when they get extremely cold to the point where the oil starts to want to gel.
Good explanation especially the point about temperatures.
 
the terminology can sound to the minimally educated (about oil) masses like it's thinner when cold than it is hot, which of course makes no sense when it comes to fluids. Fluids are nearly always runnier at high temp.
the explanation that made it click for me was along the lines of ...
a Multi grade oil (say 5w20) at any given time, is neither an SAE 5, or an SAE 20. likely some where in the middle.
They're formulated so that at COLD temps, it behaves (flows/pumps) like an SAE 5, but at temp, it behaves like an SAE 20

I'm most definitely missing some nuance/finer points...but that made it make sense to me. maybe it will help someone else...
 
I apologize in advance, I have already searched the forum but I wasn't able to find a simple answer that made sense to me.

My problem is multi-grade motor oils...

In theory, a 10w40 will be a 10 weight when cold, and a 40 weight when hot, right?

If that's true, why are motor oils generally thinner when warm, and thicker when cold?

It seems like the opposite would be true based on the numbers...

Thanks in advance for putting up with my sophomoric questions!
Good luck, I asked a similar question a couple months ago and am still wondering.
 
OK, time to haul out my 2018 explanation again:

- Oil gets thicker as it gets colder. If you feel it necessary to test this, take a room temperature bottle of oil and pour some of it out. Now stick that oil in the freezer overnight. Pour it again.

- The number in front of the W is the rating for the oil's Winter performance. This is NOT a measure of viscosity and should not be compared with the oil's hot grade, which is what comes AFTER the W. It is a QUALIFICATION of the oil's ability to pass the CCS and MRV tests for the respective rating, which are a set of viscosity ceilings. The limits are based on 5 degree celcius intervals, offset by 5 degrees. Let's look at a SAE J300:
SAE J300 Current.jpg


You can see all the Winter grades do not have qualifications for HTHS or a ceiling for hot viscosity. They instead have cold temperature limits for CCS and MRV. Rather than using an oil grade, for the which the data sheets tend to be a bit sparse, let's look at a PAO base oil, which will give us some more information.

This is Mobil Spectrasyn Plus 6 PAO, from here: https://exxonmobilchemical.ulprospe...6&e=244595&culture=en-us&u=1
1665541015261.jpg


First, you can see that at 100C, the oil is 5.9cSt. When we move to a lower temperature, say 40C, that viscosity increases to 30.3cSt. If we go much, much colder to -40C, which is where MRV for the 0W designation is measured, we see that the oil is now 7,400cSt, massively thicker. Moving further down the sheet we can see that Mobil chose to break-out the CCS (Cold Cranking Simulator) viscosity at multiple temperatures for this product: -25C (10W): 1,400cP -30C (5W): 2,247cP -35C (0W): 3,600cP Because, as per J300, we can see that this oil falls below the upper limit for the 0W designation (6,200cP) and its hot viscosity aligns with SAE 12, this base oil would qualify as a 0W-12.
 
In simple terms.
High viscosity is thick and gooey, like the mentioned honey and will pour slowy.
Low viscosity is very liquidy like room temperature water.
 
In simple terms.
High viscosity is thick and gooey, like the mentioned honey and will pour slowy.
Low viscosity is very liquidy like room temperature water.
Thanks for your reply.

This much I understand. What confuses me is how multi grade oil works... When it's hot, it supposedly has a higher viscosity, but that contradicts my own observations when changing oil. I.e., warm oil flows faster, apparently with a lower viscosity.

The honey / water thing is easy to understand...

I don't understand how a warm oil that appears thinner has a higher viscosity than a cold oil that appears thick...

Honey has a higher viscosity than water, right?

If so, then why is thinner warm oil considered to have a higher viscosity than thicker, cold oil?
 
Back
Top