PLEASE ANSWER CASTROL QUESTION?

[Oilmeup]

OK. SOMEONE PLEASE ANSWER THIS QUESTION:

I know, I know, that Castrol Syntec is not a "True" synthetic oil. However, I have used Castrol GTX before I became a Mobil 1 and Amsoil boy.

I know the story with regards to the suit filed by Mobil. However, I would like to know. WOULD SOMEONE PLEASE GIVE ME A SCIENTIFIC REASON WHY NOT TO USE CASTROL SYNTEC. I was thinking about the 5w50 or 10w40 for summer. Has anyone ever done a Virgin sample on this oil? How does the numbers compare to Mobil 1 or any other off the shelf motor oil?

I really don't care what anyone wants to call Syntec, **** if they found out that Olive Oil held better numbers I would use it. So please, hold the PAO bias, and give me a reason why this oil wouldn't perform well in my truck.

 

[Greg]

the cost vs. performance ratio is crap, that's the main reason.

 

[Oilmeup]

I guess that is my question. Does anyone really know how this oil has performed? Frankly take a look at the Pennzoil Dino, that oil is posting numbers close to a synthetic, at $1.28 a qt at walmart.

PS. Walmart has Syntec and Mobil 1 qt's for $3.97 and also the 5 qt jugs for $18.88

 

[Sin City]

I saw a VOA from 2002 that showed a TBN of 10.7 for Castrol Syntec 5W-50. The specs for this oil are very good. There are two UOA's in the forum for this oil. Try doing a search. I prefer the 5W-50 grade of Castrol Syntec over the 15W-50 Mobil 1 SuperSyn just because I think that there are very few cars on the road that need a 15W-50 oil. The 15W-50 Mobil 1 probably would be a better oil to use in racing or in a very old or heavily worn engine.

The Castrol Syntec 10W-40 has a TBN of 8.75. Amsoil has a comparison of their XL-7500 to various other 10W-40 motor oils. They just updated the information on their line of XL-7500 motor oils.

Both the Castrol Syntec 10W-40 and 5W-50 meet the ACEA A3 and B3-98 rating. I noticed that the B3-98 is a slightly outdated spec from 1998. I am assuming that the A3 is the latest version from 2002 and thus the -02 does not follow A3. The 5W-30 and 10W-30 and old (not the new German version) 0W-30 Syntec only have the weak ACEA rating of A1/B1 and not the stay in grade A3/B3 or low viscosity stay in grade A5/B5 rating. I think that any oil that has the A3 and B3 or A5 and B5 ratings will be a very good oil.

I just purchased a case (6 quarts) of the Castrol Syntec 5W-50 to use in my mothers old Geo Prizm with nearly 150,000 miles. For $3.97 a quart I think it's a good deal.

[ June 19, 2003, 02:53 AM: Message edited by: Sin City ]

 

[V6 Diesel]

I ran Castrol Syntec 5-50 in a 350 chevy from when I bought the car with 87k miles till 224k miles. Would run the oil for about 7,500 miles per change. I am giving Mobil 1 10-30 a try right now. So far I see no improvement in fuel mileage with the 10-30, just over 21mpg commuting to work which is what I got with the 5-50.
Even going with the thinner M1 10-30 there has been no oil consumption in 4k miles so far.
So I can't complain too much about Syntec as my engine is still running good with over 200k miles. I did post a UOA on the 5-50 and will have a comparison with the Mobil 1 later this year.

 

[msparks]

go to the TDI Club site and search for castrol syntec. I've seen several analysis with over 10,000 miles on castrol syntec.

Really the only bad thing about them is the principle on which they market their product, which in my opinion has brought the whole synthetic oil industry down.

This marketing mishap, has force other syn oil makers to bring out inferior products that are still called synthetic to compete in the arena becuase of price conscience consumers thinking that all syns are created equal.

One being Amsoil, who until last year was strictly PAO/Ester based, but released a group III version of the XL7500 at a reduced price to compete in the lower end market--mainley quick lubes.

Anyhow, now there are many Group III based oils out there that claim to be synthetics. Pennzoil Synthetic, Havoline Synthetic, Castrol Syntec, Shell, and I"m sure others.

But overall when comparing a group III oil to others, I would use it over other non-syns if I had to.

 

[Dr. T]

Sin City, excellent post! I agree completely even though I too was a 'Syntec buster' ever since I got major oil leaks from using the product in 1998 (and that was when it was supposedly a PAO) and especially when finding out it was a Group III.

While I don't care for Syntec 5-30 and 10-30 as much as M-1 in these grades either, the 10-40, 5-50 and 20-50 are excellent products because they are all A3 rated.

Additionally, I have noticed much better running engine than with M-1 due to easier starts, quieter running, much better fuel economy (even though they're both 50 weights), more cleaning power (Syntec smells like Tide detergent) and zero consumption.

Although I believe that PAO's are or can be slightly superior to Group III's, they are so close in performance now that one needs to evaluate one product to another. eg. Schaffer's group blend is superior to M-1's PAO, likewise Q.S. 10-30 is A3, so it's also potentially a better product to M-1's 10-30. So yes, there is no reason you should not use Syntec.

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dr. T:
Schaffer's group blend is superior to M-1's PAO, likewise Q.S. 10-30 is A3, so it's also potentially a better product to M-1's 10-30. So yes, there is no reason you should not use Syntec.

---

This is fallacious reasoning. The fact that QS 10w30 synthetic is A3 rated doesn't mean it's better than Mobil 1 10w30. Mobil 1 10w30 is designed to be an A5 oil, so the fact that it isn't A3 rated is not some sort of "defect." (I'd be willing to bet money that if 3MP were to put QS synthetic through the same test he's put the Mobil 1 through, the QS would have given up the ghost a long time ago.)

And what objective evidence do you have that any of Schaeffers oils are "superior" to Mobil 1?

 

[mrdctaylor]

What about that "brown death" I've heard people talk about with respect to Castrol Syntec. It was on another automotive board, but has anyone here heard about it? I'm assuming its some sort of bad varnish buildup. I never read a detailed explanation.

 

[Dr. T]

Well, then by the same reasoning, just because M-1 10-30 is a PAO doesn't mean it's better either.

Likewise, when you're referring to ACEA ratings, nobody can dispute that A3 is higher than A1 or A5..so YES it performs better on this scale than M-1 10-30. Period.

Athough I used to think so too, we need to look outside the box. M-1 is a great product no doubt, but there are other's on the shelf that deserve some recognition.

And...you mean Scheaffer's isn't better than M-1?

 

[moribundman]

I used Castrol Sytec 5W-50 in my Audi for 80k miles. It was the perfect oil for the sort of driving I did then (cold to hot weather within the same day). Back then I didn't know that this wasn't a true synthetic and actually overpriced. However, my engine is in very good condition and I am practically not burning any oil at 125k miles. The Castrol 5W-50 stayed light in color longer than any other oil I've used in any car. Due to a change in driving habits I switched to M1 0W-40 (which also fulfills all VW/Audi specs).

There is one thing to said in favor of Group III oils: Unlike Group IV oils, they supposedly do NOT leave a hard layer of varnish behind when burning up on hot engine parts.

 

[Oilmeup]

Wow, a lot of helpful info. Well, Im going to go with the Syntec 5w50. I really like the spread, in Michigan, so it can be Hot or Cold in a matter of hours. Perfect viscosity for here.

I figure what the **** , Walmart has it at $3.97. So I am going to use a K&N filter with it and do an anaylsys at about 2,000 miles, or should I go to 3,000? Thanks guys for your advice.

 

[Ken2]

quote:

---

Originally posted by G-Man II:

.....
And what objective evidence do you have that any of Schaeffers oils are "superior" to Mobil 1?

---

Just Schaeffer's ratings...the oils are both high HTHS for the A3 and Energy Conserving for A5--the price is better and I like the color. I've seen and heard of several good UOA's for Schaeffer's 5W-30 and 10W-30 @ 10k...how's M1 at 10k?


Ken

 

[got boost?]

the performance differnce between 5w and 15w is really only seen at VERY low temps. I doubt you need a 50 weight oil anyway. I'm not going to rehash it but mobil one is a better oil than syntec. the percentage of VIIs in that syntec is pretty high btw, I doubt it would maintain that a 50 wieght for long.

 

[WeyounDS9]

quote:

---

Originally posted by got boost?:
the percentage of VIIs in that syntec is pretty high btw,

---

hence the varnish stories about Syntec.

Fred...

 

[V6 Diesel]

quote:

---

What about that "brown death" I've heard people talk about with respect to Castrol Syntec

---

I did have some light brown varnish on the valve train which is mostly gone after auto-rx treatments. I cut open the oil filter after the first treatment (950 miles) and found no sludge. Have read the varnish can occur with other synthetics also I believe.

 

[Oilmeup]

Well, 5w50 is in, with K&N filter. Just for kicks, I have never done a sample of oil. I may do one. Can anyone recamend a good milage on the oil to do it with the Syntec 5/50?

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ken2:
Just Schaeffer's ratings...the oils are both high HTHS for the A3 and Energy Conserving for A5--the price is better and I like the color. I've seen and heard of several good UOA's for Schaeffer's 5W-30 and 10W-30 @ 10k...how's M1 at 10k?

---

Yeah, well, I'm not going to knock Schaeffers oil because I do think it's an outstanding product. However, I do fear their marketing department guys studied at the same school as the Amsoil marketing department guys. As someone pointed out recently, Schaefers claims that one of their oils meets BOTH A3 and A5, which is IMPOSSIBLE.

 

[Sin City]

Oilmeup, I would go at least 3,000 miles before doing a UOA on this oil. Since there is always some old oil left inside of the motor when you do an oil change the first analysis that you have done may not give you the best possible results do to the possibility of some slight additve clash. Also you could as an example if you had Mobile 1 Tri-synthetic in your car now get a UOA reading with a high content of magnesium even though Castrol Syntec 5W-50 only has a small amount of this additive.

Click on the link below to see a VOA and UOA on Castrol Syntec used in a BMW F650 motorcycle.


Castrol Syntec 5W-50 UOA/VOA

[ June 20, 2003, 04:43 AM: Message edited by: Sin City ]

 

[Sin City]

I just re-read the post where I saw the Castrol Syntec 5W-50 VOA and UOA and it looks like the VOA was in the BMW motorcycle for about 20 miles and when he realized that he had slightly over-filled the bike with oil he then drained several ounces and sent the sample in to be analyzed. That would explain the sodium (coolant) contamination in the VOA sample. The BMW F650 motorcycle has a water cooled motor. So it's really an almost-VOA. Sorry about the confusion.

Also the above link is not to another forum. Just to the VOA/UOA sample.

[ June 20, 2003, 06:47 AM: Message edited by: Sin City ]