Planning the next oil change using HPL

Joined
Aug 25, 2018
Messages
2,966
Location
South Carolina
Not even close to the same thing and you paraes my post to make it lose context. Anaywat, IMO, high-end means high quality that usually comes at a higher cost. It doesn’t have to be a napkin-on-your-lap kind of place to be high-end and/or cheap - have you ever been to a really good or really bad BBQ place, for example. Even the really good little guys charge an arm and a leg, at least around here, because so much work goes into it.

Along the same vein, the best steak I’ve ever had in my life was at an expensive restaurant, Le Celier in French Canada Epcot - melt in your mouth good, cooked to a perfect rare; the worst was at The Outback Steakhouse, which was recommended by multiple coworkers - over-cooked each time, with my favorite cuts always tough as hell and without any flavor. This was based on multiple visits to each - I never rate an experience based on less than two tries unless it’s absolutely god-awful.

//

I would say a more appropriate analogy would be to purchase a significantly more expensive car over an equivalently reliable, top-trim offering from a reputable make. “That Palisade sure is nice, but all of my friends won’t respect me if I’m not seen in a G Wagon!”

I think the food analogy is a much better comparison. You could eat minimum spec food (ie: McDs) for 40 years and likely still be living. In the same way, an engine could use minimum spec oil for 200k miles and likely still be living. However, after 40 years of junk food, you're likely to have some arterial clogging, extra fat, liver issues, heart disease, etc... much like 200k miles of minimum spec oil is likely to have some ring coking, varnish, sludge, etc... Some of us like to go the extra bit to take care of things a bit better than the bare minimum.
 

gathermewool

Site Donor 2022
Joined
Jan 9, 2009
Messages
9,510
Location
New England
I think the food analogy is a much better comparison. You could eat minimum spec food (ie: McDs) for 40 years and likely still be living. In the same way, an engine could use minimum spec oil for 200k miles and likely still be living. However, after 40 years of junk food, you're likely to have some arterial clogging, extra fat, liver issues, heart disease, etc... much like 200k miles of minimum spec oil is likely to have some ring coking, varnish, sludge, etc... Some of us like to go the extra bit to take care of things a bit better than the bare minimum.

Food is such a general topic and I don’t agree with your analogy either. Healthy food can be cheap or expensive; same with expensive food. Fruit and veggies can be cheap, while burgers and fries at a some places can be expensive. That doesn’t even take into account over-indulgence. No one needs or should ingest in a large fry every day, just like no one should invest a sugar-heavy fruit smoothie every day. This back-and-forth could go on forever. The end of it, it’s about pleasure and preference. I’m fine with that. Just don’t tell me your low-HP grocery-getter needs special oils. That’s like saying my skin will look better if I start buying crap from Goop.

Also, would genetics in your analogy be equivalent to build variances? Hmm, that actually works. Lol

Finally, we’re NOT talking about comparing a top-end oil like HPL to a bottom-of-the-barrel, no-name brand found in some backwater gas station. His other comparison option was…M1. Also, why would a Camry using the cheapest oil of the latest API spec result in “ring coking”? Nonsense.

I think that’s enough OT.
 

OVERKILL

$100 Site Donor 2021
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
53,070
Location
Ontario, Canada
Food is such a general topic and I don’t agree with your analogy either. Healthy food can be cheap or expensive; same with expensive food. Fruit and veggies can be cheap, while burgers and fries at a some places can be expensive. That doesn’t even take into account over-indulgence. No one needs or should ingest in a large fry every day, just like no one should invest a sugar-heavy fruit smoothie every day. This back-and-forth could go on forever. The end of it, it’s about pleasure and preference. I’m fine with that. Just don’t tell me your low-HP grocery-getter needs special oils. That’s like saying my skin will look better if I start buying crap from Goop.

Also, would genetics in your analogy be equivalent to build variances? Hmm, that actually works. Lol

Finally, we’re NOT talking about comparing a top-end oil like HPL to a bottom-of-the-barrel, no-name brand found in some backwater gas station. His other comparison option was…M1. Also, why would a Camry using the cheapest oil of the latest API spec result in “ring coking”? Nonsense.

I think that’s enough OT.
I don't think it's OT at all, the discussion at present is the decision the OP is making regarding the thread title.

I'll quote myself from the "all things equal" thread here:
I'm sure you've seen the Mobil slides I've posted where they compared their 0W-40 to other approved oils and even their own lower tier oils where the difference in deposit control and prevention are eye opening to say the least.

What it comes down to is whether you want "good enough" or better than that.

An SKS is "good enough" to harvest a deer, but it isn't a very good, or accurate gun. It's cheap, and does the job. A precision rifle at 50-100 yards will be more accurate than the SKS, but does it matter when the SKS is "good enough" and the precision rifle is arguably overkill? But what happens when the conditions change; what happens when you end up needing to make that 200+ yard shot and "minute of barn door" is no longer good enough?

With a rifle, the difference between a $250 gun and a $2,500 gun is pretty easy to determine at the range. With oils, that difference is far more difficult to see, requiring tear-downs and inspections, but that doesn't mean the difference isn't there.

The API approvals don't set the bar very high. GM's dexos spec bumps it up, but the ACEA protocols are more stringent still, then you add the Euro OEM approvals on top of those and you create a situation where the SKS/Amazon Basics might be "recommended for" but isn't approved ;) That's why I like the layered Euro approvals, as I think that really sets the bar at a reasonable level for performance.

From this thread:

And somewhat of a sidebar, but Toyota of course did have a massive problem with coking and ring sticking already in the recent past, so being concerned about that isn't much of a logical leap, despite the perhaps "pedestrian" nature of the application.
 

Shel_B

Site Donor 2022
Thread starter
Joined
Aug 7, 2020
Messages
2,815
And somewhat of a sidebar, but Toyota of course did have a massive problem with coking and ring sticking already in the recent past, so being concerned about that isn't much of a logical leap, despite the perhaps "pedestrian" nature of the application.
Despite the "pedestrian" nature of the Camry, I no longer have to be a pedestrian. I really want to keep those rings clean.
 

Shel_B

Site Donor 2022
Thread starter
Joined
Aug 7, 2020
Messages
2,815
The end of it, it’s about pleasure and preference. I’m fine with that. Just don’t tell me your low-HP grocery-getter needs special oils. That’s like saying my skin will look better if I start buying crap frommy "low-HP grocery-getter

Please point out where I, or anyone, said that my "low-HP grocery-getter needs special oils." Thanks!
 

Shel_B

Site Donor 2022
Thread starter
Joined
Aug 7, 2020
Messages
2,815
1. Why is time an issue? Why would you give it as an option if it’s not really an option due to time constraints? Also, this is just my opinion, but no oil change is really THAT time sensitive unless you don’t routinely have access to the vehicle or it’s out under very specific abuse that might rapidly degrade the oil, e.g., racing.

The time I'm describing is shopping for the oil. Where did I say it's not an option? I said that I'd rather not invest the time and $$ for a quart of oil. That's not saying it's not an option. What it is is a least desirable option.

You asked, "Why is time an issue?" Because there are other things I'd prefer to do with that time, and even if there weren't, I've just returned from driving almost 5,000 miles. I'd rather not jump into my pedestrian, s***box, boring, mundane, and bland alternative to public transportation and run errands through local traffic while driving on our uncomfortable, poorly-maintained local streets and highways. I've not been to a store to purchase oil in years, and I'd rather not start now if at all possible, especially for just a quart of oil.
2. You got a better deal on HPL than M1? “Very good“ needs context.

Everyone attending who ordered oil got a deal, plus I got a little extra because I traveled the greatest distance. It cost me a lot for that deal, but I had planned to be on a road trip anyway.

3. Quality oil? M1 is not? Not knocking HPL; simply questioning the way you posted your question and your options. Why would a Camry need better than a high-quality standard oil? What is your use case for justification.
Sure, M1 EP is a high quality oil. However, being on BITOG, and having attended the HPL meeting, I felt I could do even better for what was, to me and others, a comparable price. I feel no need to justify my oil choice. I don't ask others to justify their oil choices. However, I will give you this: the Camry is generally used for very short trips, hardly ever more than three to six miles. I've been changing oil 2X per year. Dave feels that I could extend that very comfortably to once a year. and he gave me an example of why he feels that way.

BASED on the BITOG philosophy of keeping oil and oil-change prices down, the more expensive HPL works out to be less than M1 EP.

What frosts my pumpkin are the people (perhaps including you?) who feel that just because it's a Camry, it is overkill to use a premium oil.


If your Camry is being treated so well, why the need for a specialty, boutique cleaner?
Bought the car used. It wasn't treated well, I got the cleaner as a gift, I like what I read about the product, I trust Dave, I trust and respect some of the people here who are knowledgeable about such things and who have used HPL products.

4. You’re asking us if you can mix oils when a quality maker, HPL, has an account on this forum. Ask them about mixing first. Also, when you’ve been on this forum for so long, it’s odd that you didn’t do your own research before posting. I’m not attacking you with this; I’m honestly flummoxed.
<Sheesh> I knew Dave would jump in, and I knew that people I know and trust would respond, and they did. My primary question was if it would be OK to use HPL oil and HPL cleaner together. People responded with opinions and facts. I suppose asking questions here might be considered a type of research. And I personally know a couple of folks here who had the same question.

Do you ask questions here to learn and expand your knowledge and enhance your experiences?
What better place to learn about oil than on a forum devoted to oil?
5. Why the need to manually quote me, then later use the forum’s quote feature for “emphasis”? I asked a question and you answered as someone who doesn’t have an answer - burn on me, I guess…
Now you're criticizing my writing style (y) I might ask why you're so abrasive and critical, but I won't. It's been suggested that I be more polite and perhaps even circumspect.

I'd like to ask you a personal question. How old are you?

Anyway, have a good evening
 
Last edited:

gathermewool

Site Donor 2022
Joined
Jan 9, 2009
Messages
9,510
Location
New England
Firstly, I want to apologize for all of the grammatical errors in my previous posts. I was in a rush and this site doesn’t seem to work well with iOS auto-correct (I’ve literally had to stop, delete and fix dozens of rotors [errors] in this post alone.

I also apologize if my posts come across as harsh. My questions were definitely meant to be critical, and I am admittedly a blunt person; however, I want to be clear that I never post in anger nor do I intend to offend, though I admit, based on the aforementioned, that it does happen. In my line of work, inefficient or inadequate justification for ideas are harshly questioned and more efficient ideas forcefully promoted.

Please point out where I, or anyone, said that my "low-HP grocery-getter needs special oils." Thanks!
Despite the "pedestrian" nature of the Camry, I no longer have to be a pedestrian. I really want to keep those rings clean.

Based on what I posted above - case in point. You refuse to admit that you said your grocery-getter needs a special oil, then posted that you need a special (cleaner) oil. My question, submitted objectively: does your Camry actually exhibit signs of ring sticking and oil consumption? In other words, what are you trying to fix?

I’ve got to get going - I’ll post more responses tomorrow using my iPad and it’s Magic keyboard, which beats the heck out of making post’s on this forum using a iPhone.
 
Joined
Jul 12, 2012
Messages
6,829
Location
Caldwell Idaho
Schel could you save a filter before using the HPL cleaner, then after using the cleaner, then the after the oil change run with the HPL oil ? Then we can compare the cleaning action. Decades ago while gainfully employed my service had a compressor with a sight glass to see the oil level in the compressor and the compressore engine. The sight glasses were gunked up so bad on both that you couldn't see the oil level . When I drained the Red Line oil from my personal vehicles engine I saved it and changed the compressor oil and the compressor engine oil. It didn't take too long before the sight glasses were clean and clear.
 
Joined
Jul 12, 2012
Messages
6,829
Location
Caldwell Idaho
Firstly, I want to apologize for all of the grammatical errors in my previous posts. I was in a rush and this site doesn’t seem to work well with iOS auto-correct (I’ve literally had to stop, delete and fix dozens of rotors [errors] in this post alone.

I also apologize if my posts come across as harsh. My questions were definitely meant to be critical, and I am admittedly a blunt person; however, I want to be clear that I never post in anger nor do I intend to offend, though I admit, based on the aforementioned, that it does happen. In my line of work, inefficient or inadequate justification for ideas are harshly questioned and more efficient ideas forcefully promoted.




Based on what I posted above - case in point. You refuse to admit that you said your grocery-getter needs a special oil, then posted that you need a special (cleaner) oil. My question, submitted objectively: does your Camry actually exhibit signs of ring sticking and oil consumption? In other words, what are you trying to fix?

I’ve got to get going - I’ll post more responses tomorrow using my iPad and it’s Magic keyboard, which beats the heck out of making post’s on this forum using a iPhone.
Camrys are nice cars a bit of love would be fine.
 
Top