Plan for my new Honda

mountainhouse · May 9, 2004

I've been reading for a while, and there sure is A LOT of information here. I've tried to gather is all into some sort of plan for my Accord V6. I know there's certainly not agreement on this: I'm going to go 7,500 with the factory fill per Honda recommendations. I'm then going to get a dealer oil change using the Honda 5-20w/filter. I'm then thinking I'll switch over to Mobil 1 0-20w and Honda/K&N filter at 8,500. I'll stay with that combination changing every 7,500. I'll do an oil test when the first Mobil 1 comes out. BTW I do mostly freeway driving.

Assumptions:
1. Go a 1,000 after the first oil change to clean out left over from factory fill.
2. No point testing factory fill or the oil that's in for 1,000 miles.
3. Honda and K&N have higher flows which is good.
4. Mobil 1 was great in my '91 Accord with 430K miles.

Make any sense? Am I crazy?

427Z06 · May 9, 2004

At first glance, I don't see anything wrong with your plan. It would also be interesting to see additional data regarding the use of M1 0w20 in the Accord V6. I didn't have stellar results with this combination, but then, my situation might just be an anomaly.

One thing I might consider if I were you, is maybe you'd want to change just the oil filter at 3750 miles and top it off with some Honda 5w20 they sell at the stealership..err..dealership.

That way, if there is any leftover manufacturing stuff the oil filter will have less of a chance of going into bypass mode. Just a thought, probably nothing critical here.

Whimsey · May 9, 2004

You're planning to leave the factory oil in for 7,500 miles

. I think if you look at the UOA's here you'll see that the factory oil "loads" up with wear metals quickly. I believe that Honda says to leave their "factory" oil in until the first scheduled oil change, but I believe that is stretching it. Maybe a comfortable compromise is to leave the factory oil in for say 2,000 miles and than change it. I really think the reason Honda doesn't want you back for the initial oil change "soon" is to avoid those "pesky" warranty requests that people have when they bring their new vehicles in for the first service. It makes Honda look better and saves them money for less warranty claims.

Whimsey

GoHeels1981 · May 9, 2004

Thinksyour plan sounds reasonable except for running the "breakin" oil to 7,500.

I would run it maybe 2,500 miles and then switch to the M1 0w-20. Do your first UOA after 5,000 on the M1 or 7,500.

Good luck

seotaji · May 9, 2004

quote:

and top it off with some Honda 5w20 they sell at the stealership..err..dealership.

mobil drive clean oil found at your local wal-mart.

mountainhouse · May 9, 2004

I'm a bit worried about leaving in the factory fill until 7,500 (which is my recommended OCI - normal schedule). Honda's position, quoting their web site (Ownerlink) is:

"Why should I wait to change the oil the first time?

Your Honda engine was delivered with an oil that is specially formulated for new engines that have not yet developed their "natural" wear patterns and may contain minute particles from the manufacturing process.

American Honda strongly recommends this special oil be left in the engine long enough for these wear patterns to develop, usually until the first maintenance interval specified in your Owner's Manual, based on your specific driving conditions."

I've read the UOAs. Some were shocked at the high metal, and others didn't think it was a problem. I'll keep studying. Thanks very much for all the feedback.

Brat57 · May 9, 2004

I have an Ody V6 '03.
From my experience , I'd go half on the factory fill (3750miles), even though you are not in "severe use" then with Honda Oil or equiv. or your Mobil syn. I did run a K&N on her for a few thou and she didn't like it. Noisy start-up.

What do I do? Durablend and a FRAMx2 5000 OCI. I do not have any UOA. She is running buttery smooth right now at 14k on the odo.

I may go full syn at a later date

Bror Jace · May 9, 2004

mountainhouse, I too would not like to leave the factory fill in as long as 7,500 miles.

If it were my new Honda, I would leave the factory fill in for about 3,000-4,000 miles. Most of the uptake of the high moly content should occur in that time ... and then I would drain it and refill with an oil known to have at least 200PPM of moly in it: Mobil 1 0W20, Pennzoil 5W20, Chevron Supreme 5W20 or an OEM oil.

Until I see Roger's results with Pennzoil, I have a hard time recommending more than about 5,000 miles on "conventional" 5W20 oils.

Do a search using "Honda" in this subsection to read more discussion.

Then use "5W20" and "0W20" in the UOA sub-section.

--- Bror Jace

mountainhouse · May 9, 2004

Well, that's certainly food for thought. If I understand correctly, the key difference in the Honda factory fill is only high moly. Seems like the best candidates would be Honda's 5w20 or Pennzoil's. I wish this was a more exact science. Tnx.

thrace · May 9, 2004

Nice ride.

"I'm then going to get a dealer oil change using the Honda 5-20w/filter. "

No telling what Stealer will use. Probably whatever bulk oil they have. Unless you insist on something else and be ready to pay more. They used whatever 5W-30 in mine. Never went back with my 2002 except for warranty work. The dealer has no special interest in preserving your car once they have your dollars. It is a good idea to not change to syn oil too soon just as you are planning.

"Assumptions:
"3. Honda and K&N have higher flows which is good."

Have you found proof that the Honda filter flows better? I like high flow. Honda filter may even be a Fram/Honda filter.

"4.'91 Accord with 430K miles."

Good job.

Where do you live? Is 0W-20 right for your climate?

427Z06 · May 9, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by thrace:
It is a good idea to not change to syn oil too soon just as you are planning.

I'm curious, what proof do you have of this statement?

While I don't consider it proof, I have personally run several cars now with syn oil right from the first oil change and the engines were in tip-top shape with over 150K miles before I sold them or traded them in. They ran as hard as the day I bought them, compression checks were up to specs and they passed dyno emission tests. Except for some rare special circumstances, I now consider this Myth Busted!

And mountainhouse, by now you've probably discovered this isn't an exact science yet, and people here tend to be a lot more conservative when it comes to maintenance intervals, including myself. However, IMHO. I doubt you'd effect the life of you engine by any significant amount if you followed your original plan assuming you do mostly freeway driving and don't beat on it real hard. The only thing that would provide more meaningful indicators on how your plan is working is by doing UOAs right from the start.

My 2 cents.

mountainhouse · May 9, 2004

Thrace,

Tnx. I'm really enjoying the car. I'll have to find the thread again. I remember reading there that Honda oil filters were high flow (I know they're made by Fram now). I will check that assumption. Good point, going with the Honda 5W20, I will have to do the change myself, or somewhere where I can watch the work being done.

427Z06,

It's good to know I've got a bit of laditude. My driving is almost all freeway, and I'm pretty conservative. I do admit to driving a little harder sometimes than with my old Honda.....shouldn't have gotten the model with the 6 speed manual trans ;-)

John in the ATL · May 9, 2004

mountainhouse,

As for the 7,500 miles/ 6 months according to the wife's 04 Odyssey, time will be sooner than the 7,500 miles. I am about to reach the 6 months with between 3-4k miles.

I would do at least two dino oils change up to 10,000 miles to get out as much wear metals before going to M1 0w-20. I believe the M1 0w-20 as a good candidate for the 6 months/7,500 mile OCI.

At my OCI, I will be using Castrol GTX 10-30 for the Hotlanta summer before trying the Motorcraft 5w-20 in November.

Schmoe · May 9, 2004

I'm went to M1 5W-30 on the 3rd fill. The second one, I used a dino 5W-20 and did a UOA, didn't hold up very well, barely made it to 3K. Since then, all UOA's have come back really good and using a PureOne filter.

pbm · May 9, 2004

Mountainhouse: What oil/filter combo and OCI did you use with your 91 Accord to get over 400K.
I bought a 2001 Accord (new)hoping to get high mileage and then discovered that the new Accords have issues with their automatic transmissions.
I doubt the newer Accords will go that distance
trouble free... I bought a new Hyundia Sonata (4 cyl) in 1992 which I maintained religiously including ATF/filter changes every 25-30k. The engine ran great when the tranny crapped out at
110K. The dealer quoted me over $2200 to fix it.
The book value on the car was about $700 at that point so I sold it to a mechanic for $200. I bought a new Honda hoping to avoid the same fate and now I find their trannys are no longer that good.

dagmando · May 9, 2004

Take it to the dealer every 5-7.5K miles for their $22 "Honda Express Exchange", do the 30/60/90/etc.. services, enjoy the car and then you will end up selling it in a few years and look back and be happy you never had to climb under the car and skin any knuckles and all the while knowning you there would have been no benefit if you did. It's a Honda, built for enjoyment, not maintenace. If you enjoy maintence, buy a used SAAB you will surely use all the tool in your toolbox over the years. :>)

Ray H · May 9, 2004

The only thing we know about 1st UOAs in Honda engines is that there's a LOT of moly in the oil. That does NOT mean it was in the fill oil before it was poured in the sump, though. The moly could just as well have been a constituent of the assembly lube slathered on everything that moves (and a few pieces that don't) during build. I question that Honda would go to the bother of commissioning a special break-in motor oil when there are cheaper alternatives to achieve the same end. In any event, high wear metal UOA results are never "good", though they may not specificaly be "bad" if the oil filter isn't compromised in some way. (Anyone who believes that the factory oil filters are individually tested for filtration also believes in the tooth fairy. The best we can hope for is that random samples are pulled for testing.) Anything that can bring the metal content under control as soon as possible during break-in does have to be ultimately "good" long term, though. To that end, I agree with the suggestions to get the factory-fill lube out early on. There's simply no economic sense chancing the possibility, however remote, of a defective oil filter's allowing whatever remaining casting and machining flash, and core crud to freely circulate through the engine during its most vulnerable 7,500 miles.

ToyotaNSaturn · May 10, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by mountainhouse:
Well, that's certainly food for thought. If I understand correctly, the key difference in the Honda factory fill is only high moly. Seems like the best candidates would be Honda's 5w20 or Pennzoil's. I wish this was a more exact science. Tnx.

The ONLY difference is the "high" moly. Chevron's 5w-20 has more moly than PZ.

I just posted my UOA of our '04 Saturn Vue which has essentially the same engine as your car. By all means, dump the factory fill and put PZ or Chevron 5w-20 in it and short change it, say every 2k. This avoids too much copper sitting in the oil and still giving the engine an oil that contains high moly to satisfy the Honda statments.

Like other have already said, I can't imagine keeping the factory fill in this engine for 7500 miles. If you wind up deciding to go down that road, please post a UOA of that oil. Everyone here would love to see what it would look like...

427Z06 · May 10, 2004

OK...here's a question for the "real" experts. As long as an oil's insolubles aren't excessive, TBN value still acceptable, and there's no glycol, fuel, water in it, the add pack isn't terribly depleted, what harm is being done to the engine if the wear metal values are on the high side? If I understand correctly, the wear metals being measured are less than a micron in size and are essentially in solution and are in the parts per million type quatities. I understand that high values indicate problems for an engine already broken in. But will high values cause problems in and by itself over the short run?

john_ertw · May 10, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by Bror Jace:
If it were my new Honda, I would leave the factory fill in for about 3,000-4,000 miles. Most of the uptake of the high moly content should occur in that time ... and then I would drain it and refill with an oil known to have at least 200PPM of moly in it: Mobil 1 0W20, Pennzoil 5W20, Chevron Supreme 5W20 or an OEM oil.

I agree with Bror Jace. I'd change out the factory fill in a reasonable time period (3,000-4,000 miles), then replace it with a high moly oil as mentioned above. This way you get rid of the wear metals, but still keep the moly level high (and the initial fill was there for a good number of miles to do most of the initial break in).

For my grandmothers 2004 civic, I plan on replacing the factory fill with Pennzoil 5W20 this fall (she will probably still have less than 2000 miles by then, but she's had the car since late January and I'd like to get fresh oil for the upcoming winter).

[ May 10, 2004, 04:26 PM: Message edited by: john_ertw ]

Plan for my new Honda

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