Pictures of sludge in my oil filter

wwillson · Apr 22, 2004

All,

I changed the oil in my 97' Mercury Villager today at 100000 miles even. The van has been fed M1 from 1,000 to 80,000 miles, Shell Rotella 5w-40 syn from 80,000 to 98,000, and Mobil Delvac 15w-40 from 98,000 to 100,000 miles. I normally change the oil every 5,000 miles in the summer and every 3,000 in the winter. However, I changed the M1 every 7,500 to 10,000 miles. With M1 there never was anything in the oil filter. With Rotella I noticed a bit of sludge in the filter housing, but not very much. This time I ran Delvac 1300 and noticed that the oil looked very dirty after only 2,000 miles. I changed the oil and filter tonight and MUCH to my suprise, I found LOTS of sludge in the filter housing.

I'm guessing that the Delvac must have a add pack that is really good at breaking sludge loose? If you look at the pictures, you can see the sludge was very grainy.

http://ftp.linuxnirvana.com/~wwillson/filtercap.jpg

http://ftp.linuxnirvana.com/~wwillson/filterandcap.jpg

Any advice/comments welcome,

Wayne

Mamala Bay · Apr 22, 2004

I'ved used Amsoil since 1,000 miles from my last oil change, my engine started to look as it wasn't as clean as before (75k). I've changed the oil on the average from 7500 to 12,000 miles. When I tried the Lube Control and Fuel Power at 78k, I've driven it 1k and my engine looks and feels a lot cleaner. The oil also seemed to clean itself and feels it has a lot of life in it. I am a firm believer in LC/FP as my engine feels and respond with a lot more torque and sounds a lot smoother...tap the pedal and it jumps. Even how much synthetic oil helps keep the engine clean, the LC did wonders to my engine.

Ken4 · Apr 22, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by wwillson:
Shell Rotella 5w-40 syn from 80,000 to 98,000

My hunch is the Shell 5w40 caused it to sludge up. Something with the XHVI that doesnt give it good cleaning ability. My UOA of Shell Helix Ultra 5w40 showed the soot levels shoot up.

SSDude · Apr 22, 2004

It looks like it is time for Auto-rx.

Thomas Pyrek · Apr 22, 2004

dude, if that's the case I will never use Rotella T...

I recently did something similar. The Bonneville I maintain was run on whatever dino for 60k, then Valvo MaxLife till 73k. At this point I ran Delvac 1300 and the oil was so freaking filthy I decided to change it after 2000 miles. I found no sludge though.

I guess I'm going to run M1 suv or 0w-40 in the winter.

Is this the Villager with the Nissan 3.0 L engine? I'm currently running AutoRX in my nissan with that engine. Last year I ran ATF in it and that did pull out some sludge. I'll be sure to post my pictures if I find something interesting.

[ April 23, 2004, 01:52 AM: Message edited by: Thomas Pyrek ]

sprintman · Apr 22, 2004

Time for Auto-Rx indeed. Probably needs the two bottle cleaning regime.

Dominik · Apr 22, 2004

Hmm.... did it ever occur to you that the sludge after only 2,000 miles could be caused by cleaning ability of delvac?? all other oils had been left in there for a long time so they could have shed some of the VIIs. I don't believe that Delvac 1300 could cause sludge in such short interval. Just my $0.02 worth

wwillson · Apr 22, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by Dominik:
Hmm.... did it ever occur to you that the sludge after only 2,000 miles could be caused by cleaning ability of delvac?? all other oils had been left in there for a long time so they could have shed some of the VIIs. I don't believe that Delvac 1300 could cause sludge in such short interval. Just my $0.02 worth

Yes, actually I commented in the original post that I though Delvac must have a super add pack that cleans well. I too don't believe that Delvac could have sludged in 2000 miles - not a chance...

wwillson · Apr 22, 2004

I'm inclined to believe that the deposits were formed when I ran Mobil 1. I always noticed quite a bit of sludge-like black stuff under the filler cap while running M1. When running Rotella, I noticed much less gunk under the filler cap and some sludge in the filter. With the Delvac, almost no gunk under the filler cap and LOTS of sludge in the filter. Because of the black junk under the filler cap w/M1, I haven't used it in anything for quite a while and probably will never use it again.

GregH · Apr 22, 2004

I have used M1 for about 14 years in a variety of cars and trucks with the OCI of about 6k miles. After removing valve covers for minor work, gaskets, etc, no sludge could be found in the upper end. Never removed an oil pan so don't know what was hiding there.
FYI
GregH

Dominik · Apr 22, 2004

If I were you I would stick with Delvac 1300 or Pennzoil Long Life for a few short intervals to clean out all the mess long intervals with M1 left behind. And then maybe use one of these two HDOs in warm months.

Motorbike · Apr 22, 2004

I believe theres such a thing as low temp oxidation , an area where a thinner synlubes and the better grouped dinos excells in short trips and primarily city diving in cold weather .

Although there was a 4500 mile interval prior to the one I am linking the 7500 mile run was just too long an interval for 95% city driving through winter as seen by the TBN .One interval is all it takes in the right conditions to get the sludging process started .

Also if this engine burned Mobil synthetic prior like has been stated it had increased crankcase pressures along with the problems that creates and fueled up oil is not a good thing over time either . Mobil synthetic is not at fault here .

Their was some good advice given about thicker NOT

being better " even 5w-40's " in this thread about the 7.5k interval on the Shell diesel oil .

wwillson's analysis

[ April 23, 2004, 10:18 AM: Message edited by: Motorbike ]

wwillson · Apr 22, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by Dominik:
If I were you I would stick with Delvac 1300 or Pennzoil Long Life for a few short intervals to clean out all the mess long intervals with M1 left behind. And then maybe use one of these two HDOs in warm months.

What do you think I should use in the cold months?

Dominik · Apr 22, 2004

Well, since you live in Illinois and I in Ontario we have to put up with the same misery in winter
I use M1 5W-30 (0W-30 is not available here) this winter I used GC 0W-30, very easy starts, quiet engine--good stuff. I dump my oil out as soon as it gets a bit warmer like March since cold starts are nasty on oil, I shortem my OCIs in winter to 5000 km (3000 mi) for that reason.

wwillson · Apr 22, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by Dominik:
Well, since you live in Illinois and I in Ontario we have to put up with the same misery in winter
I use M1 5W-30 (0W-30 is not available here) this winter I used GC 0W-30, very easy starts, quiet engine--good stuff. I dump my oil out as soon as it gets a bit warmer like March since cold starts are nasty on oil, I shortem my OCIs in winter to 5000 km (3000 mi) for that reason.

I would like to use GC, but have yet to find it anywhere in Chicagoland. I'm thinking Penz 5w-30 or 5w-20?

Dominik · Apr 22, 2004

Pennzoil 5W-30 has pretty good pour point I would use it but not 5W-20 I don't think your engine with increased tollerances (due to mileage) will benefit from it.

haley10 · Apr 22, 2004

What is the engine in this one???

T-Keith · Apr 22, 2004

It would be a Nissan 3.0 SOHC.

Is that an aftermarket oil filter type?

-T

wwillson · Apr 22, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by T-Keith:
It would be a Nissan 3.0 SOHC.

Is that an aftermarket oil filter type?

-T

Yes, it's a Canton/Mecca spin on. Great oil filtering with LOTS of flow, but not cheap.

Bror Jace · Apr 23, 2004

This is why I don't believe in extended intervals past 7,500 miles ... even with most synthetics.

Maybe Terry can look at a UOA and see signs that an engine is beginning to accumulate sludge ... but most of us can't. The problem is that sludge stays in the engine and doesn't show up in the oils.

--- Bror Jace

Pictures of sludge in my oil filter

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