[photo] My next oil change . . .

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I'm gonna use my Autozone oil for the next fill. GTX is top off, VR1 for the bikes.
 
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My BMW will get VR-1 on its next change. I notice most if not all auto stores in my area (rural NM) are no longer carrying Syn or Conventional VR-1. Is that what you see?
 
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Just changed the oil on my 2009 Superglide. Out - VR1 20w50 conventional....In - VR1 20w50 conventional. That XP does seem to have a lot of 'proven' goodness.
 

LoneRanger

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While I was tempted to run a 20W50 in my last Duc, this one Ducati is very specific in the manual to use only 15W50 and no other viscosity. The previous bike they allowed from 10W30 to 20W50 on the oil chart depending on climate temperatures. But not with the DVT-- 15W50 only. So I figure they have a reason. They also specifically state JASO MA2 and API SM.
 

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Is there a VOA of that Mystic 15W-50 anywhere? Would be interested to see. I have to concern my choices with compatibility for wet clutch dynamics as it relates to the new Euro 4 spec. Werd is that clutch materials may have been updated to comply with Euro 4 2017 specs and this is why Ducati now specifically requires use of only oils shown to meet MA2 clutch frictional characteristics. Previous gen of the bike they didn't say anything about JASO MA or MA2 in the manual now they zero in on MA2 and prohibit MA.
 
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I wouldnt choose to run Mystik in your bike simply because your bike calls for a different classification of oil. The Mystik meets the Harley Davidson Classification perfectly as Harley calls for a HEDO gas/diesel rated oil, Harley does not call for a motorcycle oil, except their own and their own is similar to any HEDO oils, not motorcycle. ANYWAY! YES! I have post MANY UOAs and 1 VOA on this forum. The VOA was done on 5-11-15 and is in the Virgin Oil tests on this forum, but here is a direct link... Mystik VOA 15w50 Semi Syn Blackstone Labs screwed up in their comments, they referred to it as a 15w40 but its a 15w50, heck they even typed it correctly at the top of the report. Its almost understandable, its darn hard to get 15/50 HEDOs in the USA.
 
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For some time, this is what I try to use when I can: ELF Total 4T Race 10w60 in my Ninja ZX9R, the startup chain rattle is history with it. That's real fully syn, with majority of PAO.
 
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Harley doesn't "call for" but only recommends diesel oil IF, Harley oil isn't available. Harley sells alot of their own oil to people that are scared that using any other oil will cause motor damage, or void their warranty.They also don't call for or recommend using a JASO oil in their bikes because they're not Japanese bikes, and don't have to meet those specs. So if you use whatever weight oil your mfgr recommends for the temps you ride in, use whatever fits your budget. I won't recommend and oil because everyone uses what they like.,,,
 
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I dont disagree with you but you pretty much stated what I said, maybe a little more clearly. Harley Recommends their oils (not uncommon) and if unable to use their oil, use a Diesel oil. Not a motorcycle oil, not an automotive oil. Victory and Indian also want an HEDO, maybe deposit control. All I know there must be a reason as the oils from all three companys are formulated like diesel oils. They contain high magnesium and/or boron in quantities like the diesel oil.. No big deal at all, use whatever makes one happy. Just explaining why I dont even have to think about it if you follow your owners manual. I for one, like you, know full well you do not have to pay crazy high prices for oil because most of it is just marketing. As Diesel oils meet both API Classifications for Gasoline engines in automobiles and the extra designation of huge Diesel engines in trucks, yet priced lower then most oils carrying only the Gasoline API. I guess what I am saying, their is reasonable priced oil for all engines but people get caught up in marketing from oil companies, more so in their toys, like motorcycles. :o)
 
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I think diesel oils get the nod in manuals as replacements for OEM lubricants is that diesel oils tend to favor magnesium over calcium for their cleaning detergents. According to some sources (PQIA) this additive helps protect against internal corrosion a bit better than calcium. They also tend to have higher ZDDP levels, although not as much as they once had. I will also say that because diesel oils are formulated to withstand very high temperatures (due to the presence of turbos), they handle the demands of air cooled engines better.
 
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Originally Posted By: alarmguy
I dont disagree with you but you pretty much stated what I said, maybe a little more clearly. Harley Recommends their oils (not uncommon) and if unable to use their oil, use a Diesel oil. Not a motorcycle oil, not an automotive oil. Victory and Indian also want an HEDO, maybe deposit control. All I know there must be a reason as the oils from all three companys are formulated like diesel oils. They contain high magnesium and/or boron in quantities like the diesel oil.. No big deal at all, use whatever makes one happy. Just explaining why I dont even have to think about it if you follow your owners manual. I for one, like you, know full well you do not have to pay crazy high prices for oil because most of it is just marketing. As Diesel oils meet both API Classifications for Gasoline engines in automobiles and the extra designation of huge Diesel engines in trucks, yet priced lower then most oils carrying only the Gasoline API. I guess what I am saying, their is reasonable priced oil for all engines but people get caught up in marketing from oil companies, more so in their toys, like motorcycles. :o)
One more thing, Harley also recommend's you change the diesel oil out and go back to Harley's oil asap. No mention about using diesel oil for a full oci. So if your going by the book, will you be dumping that Mystic oil out of your bike anytime soon?. By not doing so, your not following the mfgrs recommendation for the proper oil to use in their product.,,,
 

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Which brings me to the reason I use the JASO MA2 compliant oils -- Ducati says to. Spent too much money on the bike to go off-mission in the oil department over a fist full of dollars. smile
 
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Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
One more thing, Harley also recommend's you change the diesel oil out and go back to Harley's oil asap. No mention about using diesel oil for a full oci. So if your going by the book, will you be dumping that Mystic oil out of your bike anytime soon?. By not doing so, your not following the mfgrs recommendation for the proper oil to use in their product.,,,
Of course they do. The 'Motor' company wants absolutely every last dollar they can get out of their customers.
 
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Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
Originally Posted By: alarmguy
I dont disagree with you but you pretty much stated what I said, maybe a little more clearly. Harley Recommends their oils (not uncommon) and if unable to use their oil, use a Diesel oil. Not a motorcycle oil, not an automotive oil. Victory and Indian also want an HEDO, maybe deposit control. All I know there must be a reason as the oils from all three companys are formulated like diesel oils. They contain high magnesium and/or boron in quantities like the diesel oil.. No big deal at all, use whatever makes one happy. Just explaining why I dont even have to think about it if you follow your owners manual. I for one, like you, know full well you do not have to pay crazy high prices for oil because most of it is just marketing. As Diesel oils meet both API Classifications for Gasoline engines in automobiles and the extra designation of huge Diesel engines in trucks, yet priced lower then most oils carrying only the Gasoline API. I guess what I am saying, their is reasonable priced oil for all engines but people get caught up in marketing from oil companies, more so in their toys, like motorcycles. :o)
One more thing, Harley also recommend's you change the diesel oil out and go back to Harley's oil asap. No mention about using diesel oil for a full oci. So if your going by the book, will you be dumping that Mystic oil out of your bike anytime soon?. By not doing so, your not following the mfgrs recommendation for the proper oil to use in their product.,,,
Here we go again, Ill say this in the open forum and people can use reason to do what they wish. Your being facetious and playing on words. Most people know a manufacture can not REQUIRE you to use only their products to maintain a warranty. I am SURE you must be aware of that. SO you have two choices, Harley Oil or Diesel C rated oil. Im not so sure what is so hard to understand, its quite simple. Does Harley recommend motorcycle oil if you dont use Harley oil? NO Does Harley recommend gasoline only motor oil if you dont use Harley oil? NO Does Harley recommend Diesel Rated API oil if you dont use Harley oil? YES So whats the big deal? Why all the thought? Why not just choose what is mentioned? EVEN MORE SO when the makeup of the darn oil is just like the makeup of the c rated diesel oils. This isn't rocket science. SO if one is choosing an oil, pick whatever you think best, same goes for a car, boat, truck or airplane, for me, I think the manufacturer knows best with their product over what people THINK. But we all do whatever floats our boat, I do what is best for me, for the reasons mentioned. If you think you or someone you know in here is smarter then the manufacture, use what they say. If I own a BMW I will use API or Euro oils mentioned by BMW, if I own a Porsche I will use oils recommended or mentioned by Porsche. If I own a Ducati I will use oils mentioned by Ducati, or Victory, or Indian or whoever. This is not about Harley, this is about using the proper fluids, in this case proper API rated oils, you can read whatever you want to, spin it anyway you want to but we all know what to do if you trust the company that built the product to know what is best for it. No big deal, not worth any further discussion.
 
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Originally Posted By: Robenstein
I think diesel oils get the nod in manuals as replacements for OEM lubricants is that diesel oils tend to favor magnesium over calcium for their cleaning detergents. According to some sources (PQIA) this additive helps protect against internal corrosion a bit better than calcium. They also tend to have higher ZDDP levels, although not as much as they once had. I will also say that because diesel oils are formulated to withstand very high temperatures (due to the presence of turbos), they handle the demands of air cooled engines better.
Yes and the bottom line is Diesel oils are rated Gasoline API SM and carry the additional API ratings of the diesel CJ4. SO one is getting an oil that passes two different API Certifications/Standards. Sounds like a win, win. I never looked much into the why the recommendation but I think some of your thinking is correct, in addition, to heat, I think they may also be concerned about piston deposits. But again, bottom line is, these are SM rated oils with the additional API CJ4 rating. IN the real world Im not so sure it will make any difference, yet the cost is the same and in many cases cheaper then some of these other oils, so I ask myself, why not just listen to the make of the bike? They certainly have a reason.
 
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Originally Posted By: alarmguy
Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
Originally Posted By: alarmguy
I dont disagree with you but you pretty much stated what I said, maybe a little more clearly. Harley Recommends their oils (not uncommon) and if unable to use their oil, use a Diesel oil. Not a motorcycle oil, not an automotive oil. Victory and Indian also want an HEDO, maybe deposit control. All I know there must be a reason as the oils from all three companys are formulated like diesel oils. They contain high magnesium and/or boron in quantities like the diesel oil.. No big deal at all, use whatever makes one happy. Just explaining why I dont even have to think about it if you follow your owners manual. I for one, like you, know full well you do not have to pay crazy high prices for oil because most of it is just marketing. As Diesel oils meet both API Classifications for Gasoline engines in automobiles and the extra designation of huge Diesel engines in trucks, yet priced lower then most oils carrying only the Gasoline API. I guess what I am saying, their is reasonable priced oil for all engines but people get caught up in marketing from oil companies, more so in their toys, like motorcycles. :o)
One more thing, Harley also recommend's you change the diesel oil out and go back to Harley's oil asap. No mention about using diesel oil for a full oci. So if your going by the book, will you be dumping that Mystic oil out of your bike anytime soon?. By not doing so, your not following the mfgrs recommendation for the proper oil to use in their product.,,,
Here we go again, Ill say this in the open forum and people can use reason to do what they wish. Your being facetious and playing on words. Most people know a manufacture can not REQUIRE you to use only their products to maintain a warranty. I am SURE you must be aware of that. SO you have two choices, Harley Oil or Diesel C rated oil. Im not so sure what is so hard to understand, its quite simple. Does Harley recommend motorcycle oil if you dont use Harley oil? NO Does Harley recommend gasoline only motor oil if you dont use Harley oil? NO Does Harley recommend Diesel Rated API oil if you dont use Harley oil? YES So whats the big deal? Why all the thought? Why not just choose what is mentioned? EVEN MORE SO when the makeup of the darn oil is just like the makeup of the c rated diesel oils. This isn't rocket science. SO if one is choosing an oil, pick whatever you think best, same goes for a car, boat, truck or airplane, for me, I think the manufacturer knows best with their product over what people THINK. But we all do whatever floats our boat, I do what is best for me, for the reasons mentioned. If you think you or someone you know in here is smarter then the manufacture, use what they say. If I own a BMW I will use API or Euro oils mentioned by BMW, if I own a Porsche I will use oils recommended or mentioned by Porsche. If I own a Ducati I will use oils mentioned by Ducati, or Victory, or Indian or whoever. This is not about Harley, this is about using the proper fluids, in this case proper API rated oils, you can read whatever you want to, spin it anyway you want to but we all know what to do if you trust the company that built the product to know what is best for it. No big deal, not worth any further discussion.
For a guy that has said more then once to use what oil the mfgr recommends, your not practicing what you preach. Harley does not recommend long term usage of diesel oil. They say to use it ONLY if their branded oil isn't available, and you take that to mean it's approved to use all the time. If your not gonna tell the real story, it's probably better you don't discuss it any longer.,,
 
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Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
Originally Posted By: alarmguy
[quote=BigCahuna][quote=alarmguy]I dont disagree with you but you pretty much stated what I said, maybe a little more clearly... No big deal, not worth any further discussion.
For a guy that has said more then once to use what oil the mfgr recommends, your not practicing what you preach. Harley does not recommend long term usage of diesel oil. They say to use it ONLY if their branded oil isn't available, and you take that to mean it's approved to use all the time. If your not gonna tell the real story, it's probably better you don't discuss it any longer.,,
Well then, you are free to use only Harley oil if you wish. Me, Ill use the diesel/gas oil they mention. I wont use motorcycle oil because its not mentioned and no sense using gasoline only oil because its not mentioned. Whatever floats ones boat. I already know API SM/C rated oils are more robust and HD cant hold it against me for using it. You yourself, can stick with Harley oil as the only brand, you take Harley words to mean you cant use other oils and that is up to you. Me? Im not going to use Gasoline only oils and not going to use Motorcycle only oils when Harley says to use C Rated Diesel oils "if Harley oil is not available". Just common sense man.
 
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