Phone Call With Wix and Learned Some Things...

[SilverC6]

ArvinMeritor (Wix) is a major OEM manufacturer.

You can't beat their products.

You can turn on the FRAM Hyperbole machine on high and you will never displace Wix as the best oil filter out there.

The Wix XP is marketed as an extended performance (XP) oil filter.

That's why it starts at 50% @ 20 microns and improves through "caking" with use.

They are trying to avoid bypass before 15,000 miles.

FRAM only wishes they would wake up tomorrow and be Wix.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: NHGUY
The XP is for long duration OCI,so I would imagine they are afraid that at 6K/7K miles the filter might bypass if the media was too "efficient" early on...???


Fram Ultra is rated up to 15K miles, and you can bet they have lots of headroom with that before the bypass valve would start opening up due to debris loading on the typical vehicle.

 

[dlundblad]

Originally Posted By: SilverC6
That's why it starts at 50% @ 20 microns and improves through "caking" with use.


Do you have any technical data to support this? Since filters become more efficient as usage increases, this makes sense. But a (+ or -) 45% increase in efficiency over that time period seems like quite a stretch to me. Also if it does become more efficient as it nears the 15,000 mile mark, anything under that would still be subpar efficiency and a huge waste. You would either have to run a 15,000 OCI or heaven forbid run the same oil filter for 2 or 3 OCI's. I would like to see some technical "in use" data of the WIX XP and the Fram Ultra for sure. This also brings up a question of Fram's efficiency data. Are their unused filters really rated at their stated efficiencies right out of the box or do they reach that only when the filter has seen its full recommended usage?

 

[ElastoHydro]

Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Are their unused filters really rated at their stated efficiencies right out of the box or do they reach that only when the filter has seen its full recommended usage?


Stated efficiencies are whatever the ISO 4548-12 test does. Its a multi-pass test so they just keep circulating particles around to see what sticks. Fram pulls used filters out of cars all the time and it'd be nice to know what kind of loading they are seeing.

 

[dlundblad]

Originally Posted By: ElastoHydro
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Are their unused filters really rated at their stated efficiencies right out of the box or do they reach that only when the filter has seen its full recommended usage?


Stated efficiencies are whatever the ISO 4548-12 test does. Its a multi-pass test so they just keep circulating particles around to see what sticks. Fram pulls used filters out of cars all the time and it'd be nice to know what kind of loading they are seeing.


I see. But even if the test is a "multi pass", is it still equal to 15,000 miles of usage?

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: SilverC6

You can turn on the FRAM Hyperbole machine on high and you will never displace Wix as the best oil filter out there.


And that is based on what exactly?

Originally Posted By: SilverC6
The Wix XP is marketed as an extended performance (XP) oil filter.


WIX advertises the XP as an extended drain (not so much extended performance, because it's performance stinks), but they don't even state a mileage rating of the XP like Purolator or Fram does on their full synthetic filters. WIX is weak in the spec department.


Originally Posted By: SilverC6
FRAM only wishes they would wake up tomorrow and be Wix.


Good one ...

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Originally Posted By: ElastoHydro
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Are their unused filters really rated at their stated efficiencies right out of the box or do they reach that only when the filter has seen its full recommended usage?


Stated efficiencies are whatever the ISO 4548-12 test does. Its a multi-pass test so they just keep circulating particles around to see what sticks. Fram pulls used filters out of cars all the time and it'd be nice to know what kind of loading they are seeing.


I see. But even if the test is a "multi pass", is it still equal to 15,000 miles of usage?


The ISO 4548-12 test determined the rating that Fram gave the Ultra based on the flow & delta-p the filter would have at 15K of use in a typical vehicle, as defined by some spec. That's how these filter companies come up with a rated use mileage ... it's not picked by throwing darts at a random chart.

 

[SilverC6]

Not from ArvinMeritor, but here's Cummins Fleetguard on the subject. The whole video is worthwhile, but check around 2:50:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsIhMx91xFQ

With initial filter efficiency too high, filter goes into bypass more often.

 

[SilverC6]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: SilverC6

You can turn on the FRAM Hyperbole machine on high and you will never displace Wix as the best oil filter out there.


And that is based on what exactly?

Originally Posted By: SilverC6
The Wix XP is marketed as an extended performance (XP) oil filter.


WIX advertises the XP as an extended drain (not so much extended performance, because it's performance stinks), but they don't even state a mileage rating of the XP like Purolator or Fram does on their full synthetic filters. WIX is weak in the spec department.


Originally Posted By: SilverC6
FRAM only wishes they would wake up tomorrow and be Wix.


Good one ...

Why be such a FRAM shill?

Do they pay you or provide you product or do you just like to curry favor for the heck of it?

 

[itguy08]

Originally Posted By: SilverC6
ArvinMeritor (Wix) is a major OEM manufacturer.


ArvinMeritor has nothing to do with Wix....

http://www.affiniagroup.com/about-us/brands/brands-details

Meritor makes no mention of any filtration companies:
http://www.meritor.com/default.aspx

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: SilverC6
ArvinMeritor (Wix) is a major OEM manufacturer.

You can't beat their products.

You can turn on the FRAM Hyperbole machine on high and you will never displace Wix as the best oil filter out there.

The Wix XP is marketed as an extended performance (XP) oil filter.

That's why it starts at 50% @ 20 microns and improves through "caking" with use.

They are trying to avoid bypass before 15,000 miles.

FRAM only wishes they would wake up tomorrow and be Wix.


As itguy08 pointed out, WIX is owned by Affinia, which has sales of about 1.5 billion annually. In comparison, a company like Donaldson (pioneers in filtration) have sales of approximately twice that.

FRAM is owned by Rank Group, which is in turn owned by Graeme Hart. Because it is privately owned I couldn't find numbers to compare to the above.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: SilverC6
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: SilverC6

You can turn on the FRAM Hyperbole machine on high and you will never displace Wix as the best oil filter out there.


And that is based on what exactly?

Originally Posted By: SilverC6
The Wix XP is marketed as an extended performance (XP) oil filter.


WIX advertises the XP as an extended drain (not so much extended performance, because it's performance stinks), but they don't even state a mileage rating of the XP like Purolator or Fram does on their full synthetic filters. WIX is weak in the spec department.


Originally Posted By: SilverC6
FRAM only wishes they would wake up tomorrow and be Wix.


Good one ...

Why be such a FRAM shill?

Do they pay you or provide you product or do you just like to curry favor for the heck of it?


Why such a WIX shirll? You really think any WIX can out perform the Ultra? Show me the specs that makes you think that.

I like the Ultra, and I say so because it's a great filter and it has ISO test specs to back that up, period.

Definite WIX shill talk:
Quote:
You can turn on the FRAM Hyperbole machine on high and you will never displace Wix as the best oil filter out there.

 

[badtlc]

Originally Posted By: gtmaster303
What's wrong with just meeting OEM standards?


What are OEM standards?

 

[leeharvey418]

Originally Posted By: badtlc
What are OEM standards?

Serious question or wisecrackery?

 

[badtlc]

Originally Posted By: leeharvey418
Originally Posted By: badtlc
What are OEM standards?

Serious question or wisecrackery?


Both. Auto manufacturers don't release that information. Hard to say if one is happy with OEM standards unless it is just blind faith in the manufacturer.

 

[leeharvey418]

Well, some of us do have access to OEM standards. That doesn't mean that we scour them to evaluate our maintenance requirements...

As for blind faith in manufacturers, I can say for certain that GM's bureaucracy keeps a heavier hand on their engineers than most any OEM. That's just one example, but it would make me far less likely to go sifting through the GMW specs to get my information, when somebody at the Ren Cen is as likely to have made the final decision as someone in Warren.

At the end of the day, I just accept the fact that people have their reasons for making their decisions. Coming to BITOG to find those reasons might be good, but it can also confuse the heck out of a person.

 

[badtlc]

Would you like to share some of these manufacturing filter efficiency specifications that you have access to?

 

[leeharvey418]

If I was sure I had access to them, and you could give me the standard number, then sure...

Things being what they are, I'm sorry I mentioned it.

 

[HangFire]

Originally Posted By: Kira
Hello, I don't mean to rain on the parade, but....

Wouldn't all the "half-baked", noncommittal muttering from oil filter companies tend to push you toward rejection of the idea of lengthening OCI's?


Not necessarily. For one thing you could choose to change the filter and keep the oil. For another you could choose a filter with better published specs.

Wix has a great rep for reliability, we all know their data is lacking. The reason is simple, the market doesn't demand the data. I bet large fleet buyers, OEM's like NAPA and manufacturers like Cat can get specs on individual filters. Since Fram owns most of the consumer market and Purolator has most of the rest, Wix really has no pressing reason to publish anything. If they did publish, I bet half of BITOG would say their numbers are wrong.

Not defending their practice, I wish they did publish the data.

 

[ElastoHydro]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

As itguy08 pointed out, WIX is owned by Affinia, which has sales of about 1.5 billion annually. In comparison, a company like Donaldson (pioneers in filtration) have sales of approximately twice that.

FRAM is owned by Rank Group, which is in turn owned by Graeme Hart. Because it is privately owned I couldn't find numbers to compare to the above.


Originally Posted By: HangFire
Since Fram owns most of the consumer market and Purolator has most of the rest, Wix really has no pressing reason to publish anything.


MotorKing once said Fram makes 320,000,000 oil filters in a year! Worldwide figure I guess. Should make them the market leader. Also, understand many oil filters like MicroGard just hire out whatever factory gives them the best deal.