PF RGT vs Mobil 1

[CT8]

Originally Posted by OVERKILL

Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter

Originally Posted by OVERKILL

Giving these videos any sort of platform as a legitimate metric by which to judge oil performance drags down the intellectual and technical value of this board.

Give the members a little more credit. If the board is as savvy as you suggest it is, then the members should be able to see the PF videos for what they're are.. entertainment. Besides, half the posts on this board are anecdotal and do no more harm to it's integrity than a PF video does.

Given my tenure here, I've seen quite a few fall head-over-heels for meaningless bench tests and there are examples of folks in this very thread, which I've already pointed out. The technical knowledge and expertise shared by folks like Molakule shouldn't need being risked to be overshadowed by some dude with a one-armed bandit and a video camera, yet here we are.

Dr Haas" oil 101 series shad quite a following and regurgitation of the writings on this website.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by CT8

Originally Posted by OVERKILL

Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter

Originally Posted by OVERKILL

Giving these videos any sort of platform as a legitimate metric by which to judge oil performance drags down the intellectual and technical value of this board.

Give the members a little more credit. If the board is as savvy as you suggest it is, then the members should be able to see the PF videos for what they're are.. entertainment. Besides, half the posts on this board are anecdotal and do no more harm to it's integrity than a PF video does.

Given my tenure here, I've seen quite a few fall head-over-heels for meaningless bench tests and there are examples of folks in this very thread, which I've already pointed out. The technical knowledge and expertise shared by folks like Molakule shouldn't need being risked to be overshadowed by some dude with a one-armed bandit and a video camera, yet here we are.

Dr Haas" oil 101 series shad quite a following and regurgitation of the writings on this website.

Yup, but thankfully with the help of a number of extremely valuable members, that whole thing has been fixed.

 

[jayjr1105]

Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter

Originally Posted by OVERKILL

Giving these videos any sort of platform as a legitimate metric by which to judge oil performance drags down the intellectual and technical value of this board.

Give the members a little more credit. If the board is as savvy as you suggest it is, then the members should be able to see the PF videos for what they're are.. entertainment. Besides, half the posts on this board are anecdotal and do no more harm to it's integrity than a PF video does.

Nailed it. Who cares if someone falls head over heels for RGT over Mobil 1 because of a PF video. If someone thinks that way then so be it. RGT isn't going to grenade your engine vs Mobil 1. Every single oil PF has ever tested has been API/Dexos certified and more than suitable for 99.9% of vehicles. I don't think Molakule is offended by the crudity of his testing. Sometimes Molakule's posts are a little over peoples heads because we all aren't chemists, so if someone wants to pick their oil based on some crude bench testing, who gives a sh!t

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by jayjr1105

Nailed it. Who cares if someone falls head over heels for RGT over Mobil 1 because of a PF video. If someone thinks that way then so be it. RGT isn't going to grenade your engine vs Mobil 1. Every single oil PF has ever tested has been API/Dexos certified and more than suitable for 99.9% of vehicles. I don't think Molakule is offended by the crudity of his testing. Sometimes Molakule's posts are a little over peoples heads because we all aren't chemists, so if someone wants to pick their oil based on some crude bench testing, who gives a sh!t

It's about making decisions based on factual information rather than nonsense. Would you make the same statement about using an oil taste test for selection criteria? You should since they are the same level of legitimacy.

 

[ka9mnx]

Originally Posted by kschachn

It's about making decisions based on factual information rather than nonsense. Would you make the same statement about using an oil taste test for selection criteria? You should since they are the same level of legitimacy.

Don't forget about the "Sniff Test". Doesn't everyone sniff their oil before pouring?

 

[kstanf150]

Originally Posted by ka9mnx

Originally Posted by kschachn

It's about making decisions based on factual information rather than nonsense. Would you make the same statement about using an oil taste test for selection criteria? You should since they are the same level of legitimacy.

Don't forget about the "Sniff Test". Doesn't everyone sniff their oil before pouring?

Yes, guilty as charged !!!! The stinker it smells the better the oil is.....right ???? ...³...³...³ðŸ¤”🤔🤔🥴🥴🥴🤣🤣🤣🤣

 

[jayjr1105]

Originally Posted by kstanf150

Originally Posted by ka9mnx

Originally Posted by kschachn

It's about making decisions based on factual information rather than nonsense. Would you make the same statement about using an oil taste test for selection criteria? You should since they are the same level of legitimacy.

Don't forget about the "Sniff Test". Doesn't everyone sniff their oil before pouring?

Yes, guilty as charged !!!! The stinker it smells the better the oil is.....right ???? ...³...³...³ðŸ¤”🤔🤔🥴🥴🥴🤣🤣🤣🤣

Your extreme exaggeration is only making you seem more juvenile. I can't believe you are comparing tasting an engine oil to a crude level lubricity, evaporative loss, and cold flow test. While everyone's bi***ing about this guy and his extreme amateur testing, he's laughing all the way to the bank making 6-7 figures to screw around with tools, oil and engines in his garage.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by jayjr1105

Your extreme exaggeration is only making you seem more juvenile. I can't believe you are comparing tasting an engine oil to a crude level lubricity, evaporative loss, and cold flow test. While everyone's bi***ing about this guy and his extreme amateur testing, he's laughing all the way to the bank making 6-7 figures to screw around with tools, oil and engines in his garage.

All of those parameters that are relevant are already tested in accordance with proper and standardized tests. Using grossly inferior homebrew tests on a YouTube video is not helpful nor significant in any way. So yes, a taste test is equivalent to what is being done in that video. You might be better served by using some of that angry energy to learn about basic scientific methods and what constitutes valid and worthwhile experimental data. He no doubt is laughing all the way to the bank which only goes to illustrate that you don't always need to do something significant to make money. I had a boss like that once.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by kschachn

Why would I (or anyone for that matter) go spend money on a piece of equipment to test motor oil for an irrelevant property? We already know from that "other" website that when motor oil is tested with this machine there is no statistically significant difference in any of the results for any oil. Why go to the effort and cost to repeat what amounts to a useless test?

It's a legitimate tribology tester. It applies a constant force that you can vary to a lubricated surface and measures the resulting friction and wear. Its relevance to a certain application, the skill required by the user to generate meaningful results, the correct way of using it, etc. are certainly a matter of concern. I'm not sure what the other site is or did, but tribology is a complicated science, and if you don't pay attention to detail or know what you're doing, the results could be meaningless. If you want something better, there is the mini traction machine (MTM), which will give much more controlled results and is much easier to operate, but these costs a lot more. They certainly work and produce results relevant to actual engines. This brochure uses the mini traction machine (MTM) to analyze an oil's wear protection: Chevron Group II base oils: optimise automotive engine oils These describe the mini traction machine (MTM): https://www.crodalubricants.com/en-gb/discovery-zone/how-we-test-our-products/mini-traction-machine https://pcs-instruments.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/MTM2-brochure-2018.pdf I think the mini traction machine (MTM) is the first step many lubricant formulators use to screen lubricants and additive packages.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by Gokhan

It's a legitimate tribology tester. It applies a constant force that you can vary to a lubricated surface and measures the resulting friction and wear.

Which ASTM test method uses the Falex machine and states it is applicable to automobile motor oils? Isn't that what is being used in the PF videos?

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by kschachn

Originally Posted by Gokhan

It's a legitimate tribology tester. It applies a constant force that you can vary to a lubricated surface and measures the resulting friction and wear.

Which ASTM test method uses theTimken machine and states it is applicable to automobile motor oils? Isn't that what is being used in the PF videos?

Does a test (any test) need to be ASTM-standardized to be applicable to motor oils (or anything)? Is the mini traction machine (MTM) mentioned by ASTM? It is the standard oil tester for oil blenders before they go on and spend millions of dollars on expensive engine tests.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

He is entertaining. If he makes a few bucks good for him! This is an enthusiast forum, not a society of professional triboligist protecting the integrity of a practice. I enjoy the more technical aspects myself, but videos, with some repeatable science such as the volatility test.., is fun to watch. Most of us understand the difference.

Originally Posted by kschachn

Originally Posted by jayjr1105

Your extreme exaggeration is only making you seem more juvenile. I can't believe you are comparing tasting an engine oil to a crude level lubricity, evaporative loss, and cold flow test. While everyone's bi***ing about this guy and his extreme amateur testing, he's laughing all the way to the bank making 6-7 figures to screw around with tools, oil and engines in his garage.

All of those parameters that are relevant are already tested in accordance with proper and standardized tests. Using grossly inferior homebrew tests on a YouTube video is not helpful nor significant in any way. So yes, a taste test is equivalent to what is being done in that video. You might be better served by using some of that angry energy to learn about basic scientific methods and what constitutes valid and worthwhile experimental data. He no doubt is laughing all the way to the bank which only goes to illustrate that you don't always need to do something significant to make money. I had a boss like that once.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by Gokhan

Does a test (any test) need to be ASTM-standardized to be applicable to motor oils (or anything)? Is the mini traction machine (MTM) mentioned by ASTM? It is the standard oil tester for oil blenders before they go on and spend millions of dollars on expensive engine tests.

Of course not but it should be representative of a process you are endeavoring to model. How does that test model some process in an ICE? Is this article in error? http://www.cen-pe-co.com/images/Central%20News/Cen%20News%20AUGUST%202013.pdf

 

[CT8]

Any major brand oil that meets the manufacturers specs will allow with proper oil change intervals to last as long as possible. Some are probably better than others yet I find other than regurgitated marketing claims no one has ever proves a superior oil especially the current oils.

 

[BucDan]

Reading through all of the comments, some of you guys have sticks up your butts. He never once claimed it was scientific, but it is methodology that he's continuously repeating to stay relatively consistent for a non-professional, entertainment video. It's fun to watch, but I don't put much weight into it like everyone else, but results are results. It isn't gospel, and he never claimed for it to be. He's a Youtube entertainer. As with his other tests that aren't with oil, they still produce results, which can actually be verifiable like the duct tape test. I'm sure if he runs conventional oil 5w30 vs M1 EP 5w30, we can expect the results that M1 will outperform conventional in the same tests, thus it becomes confirmation bias, but the results will still produce. Again, he isn't sponsored, and he does it for views as a content creator. He makes good money, and he and his viewers enjoy it.

 

[Mad_Hatter]

Originally Posted by Bryanccfshr

He is entertaining. If he makes a few bucks good for him! This is an enthusiast forum, not a society of professional triboligist protecting the integrity of a practice. I enjoy the more technical aspects myself, but videos, with some repeatable science such as the volatility test.., is fun to watch. Most of us understand the difference.

Exactly. This debate reminds me of the one about usage of "proper terms" a week or two ago. Two camps of people, camp A could really care less if colloquial terms are used and camp B is wound up so tight about terms that they take it as a personal offense. It's no coincidence that camp B people are offended by PF and his videos.

Originally Posted by kschachn

Using grossly inferior homebrew tests on a YouTube video is not helpful nor significant in any way.

Spoiler Alert: the internet is filled with useless, irrelevant crap.. you're gonna get awfully tired policing it all.

Originally Posted by kschachn

Why go to the effort and cost to repeat what amounts to a useless test?

Because it would be fun, you do know what fun is don't you? If not, you should try it sometime..it's like chicken soup for the soul.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter

Spoiler Alert: the internet is filled with useless, irrelevant crap.. you're gonna get awfully tired policing it all.

If that is one of your standards for choosing a motor oil, then yes I agree.

 

[Mad_Hatter]

Originally Posted by kschachn

Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter

Spoiler Alert: the internet is filled with useless, irrelevant crap.. you're gonna get awfully tired policing it all.

If that is one of your standards for choosing a motor oil, then yes I agree.

Not mine because I'm able to discern between something that has probative value v. something meant for entertainment purposes. You however I'm not so sure of..or rather maybe it's the broader BITOG audience you have little faith in? Care to talk about it..?

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter

Not mine because I'm able to discern between something that has probative value v. something meant for entertainment purposes. You however I'm not so sure of..or rather maybe it's the broader BITOG audience you have little faith in? Care to talk about it..?

No