Performance increase with lighter viscosity

Toyota Steve · Sep 19, 2003

I have a toyota 4runner with a very tricked up 22r. It has about 25,000 on it since I built it, and I've only run M1 in it. I started with 15 - 50 ( I'm in florida), but also tried 0 - 40. the 0 - 40 had obvious performance increase, but on my last change I did the 15 - 50 again. I was towing a trailer on a trip in july, and was willing to sacrifice some performance (so I thought). Anyway, I just changed oil, and did a 50/50 mix of m1 10 - 30 and 15 - 50. Home brew 12.5 - 40. Hard to not like viscosity when in florida...

Here's the point (finally!)My cruise vaccuum has gone up 3". Oil pressure down about 5 - 7#. I figure mileage on each tank, but I know this will show an obvious improvement in economy. And the performance is back.

Sometimes we try different viscosities, and "seat of the pants dyno" tells us there's a power change. 3" of vaccuum confirms it.

and yes, I've tried 5 - 30, it ran like a scalded dog, but I just couldn't stop looking at my oil pressure guage. Steve

buster · Sep 19, 2003

Interesting. How was your oil pressure with the 5w-30? IMO, I think running a 15w-50 is way to thick for 99.999% of cars sold today. The mix is a good idea and something I will be doing down the road after I sample my 0w-20.

Your engine is working more efficiently with the mix then the 15w-50. To much drag and heat generated which will wear out an engine much faster then running a thinner weight oil IMO.

[ September 19, 2003, 11:38 PM: Message edited by: buster ]

pscholte · Sep 19, 2003

I will accept that performance can be improved by using a thinner weight oil, but I am not ready to condemn thicker viscosities until I see UOAs that consistently show improved or equal wear data using thinner oils. An analogy: there may be things you can do to improve your qualifying times before the 24 hour race (higher turbo boost, thinner "qualifying oil"), but if you do those same things during the race your car won't last. Some things may look good in the short term, but will extended time intervals prove them out?

Toyota Steve · Sep 19, 2003

Psycholte - yes, but at some point, there can be too much viscosity. you wouldn't run 90 wt in your engine would you? the trick is to find what your engine likes.

Buster, the 5 - 30 oil pressure was about 45# @ 3000 rpm. I'm sure it was enough, but at the time the stroker combination was untested but for a few thousand miles, and I didn't want any failures due to oil pressure. It's proven to be a durable engine, and I've built another one for a customer that's also doing well. bear in mind these engine have somewhat more crank clearance than today's factory engines. Steve

KW · Sep 19, 2003

I used the 50/50 mix for a few changes and it seemed to have worked just fine for me. For the last couple of changes I have been running the 0W40 and like it so far. The 0W does not bother me as it is 40 weight once the motor is warm.

KW

tenderloin · Sep 19, 2003

just tried M1 0-20 in my miata with no detectable increase in performance

Try Torco or Synergyn 0W-20 and ...call me in the morning.

pscholte · Sep 19, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by Toyota Steve:
the trick is to find what your engine likes.

Here here! THIS is the BOTTOM LINE!

userfriendly · Sep 20, 2003

Toyota Guys;
I now have 3 22Rs in need of re-building.
I'll do them over the winter. A pair and a spare.
I'm thinking of about 9-9.5 CR.
What is the right piston part numbers, best rod and main bearings, oil pump, and carb that will bolt on to the stock intake manifold without having to make custom throttle cables and brackets?
The 4.3 Chevota is on hold until I find another block and crank.
Another question is will the 4 and 5 speed solid front axle set-ups handle 200-250 hp?

Ken2 · Sep 20, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by Toyota Steve:
Psycholte - yes, but at some point, there can be too much viscosity. you wouldn't run 90 wt in your engine would you? ...

"90 wt." by definition, is automotive gear oil, and the viscosity is about the same as SAE 40 or SAE 50 engine oil.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/visc.html

Ken

Shannow · Sep 20, 2003

Yep, you can go too thick.

I'm running a 25W-70 in my J-Car as an experiment.

I've lost 3MPG, and a heap of power over 15W-40.

Jelly · Sep 20, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by Shannow:
Yep, you can go too thick.

I'm running a 25W-70 in my J-Car as an experiment.

I've lost 3MPG, and a heap of power over 15W-40.

Yeah, unless you have a mechnical problem and/or burn a great deal of oil, I don't see much, if any, use for oil heavier than 15w-40.

Funny though how 15w-40 is considered "thick" here in the states, but of average viscosity elsewhere...

[ September 20, 2003, 05:57 PM: Message edited by: Jelly ]

Shannow · Sep 20, 2003

The oil viscosity differences between countries is interesting.

I had a Mobil technician expressly warn me off using 10W-30 M1 in my 4 runner, as it was too thin.

Our country is slowly moving towards xW-40 as a reasonable oil, from the 20W-50 that we always used.

The experiment with 25W-70 was simply that. If I continue, I'll sample it and switch to a 10W-30 or somesuch for a back to back.

sbc350gearhead · Sep 20, 2003

Shannow, What is the ambient temp in australia in the summer?

Shannow · Sep 20, 2003

Locally in the heat of summer, we get overnights of 55F to 70F (sometimes much warmer), Daytime summer temps are 90 through 105F, sometimes a tad warmer. There are a lot hotter places than Lithgow.

'cause I live in cold country, we can go down to about 12F in winter, generally about 20F. Other areas never even see a frost.

(The 25W-70 starts pretty well down to 20F)

Patman · Sep 20, 2003

Australia sounds very similar to Texas weather, but most of the guys I know who live there use 10w30. At least the guys with F-bodies and Corvettes anyhow.

tom slick · Sep 20, 2003

quote:

Toyota Guys;
I now have 3 22Rs in need of re-building.
I'll do them over the winter. A pair and a spare.
I'm thinking of about 9-9.5 CR.
What is the right piston part numbers, best rod and main bearings, oil pump, and carb that will bolt on to the stock intake manifold without having to make custom throttle cables and brackets?

how wild do you want to get with your engine?
clevite77 bearings are good. a weber carb is your best bet for a carb. oil pumps are reusable unless very worn. toyota truck axles are considered as strong/stonger than the dana44 and those come in v-8 trucks.
send me a PM and i will direct you to a site that can answer all your toyota questions much more in depth.

Cujet · Sep 20, 2003

I just tried M1 0-20 in my miata with no detectable increase in performance. I also could not measure any increase in accel with my G-Tech. Fuel economy did not change either. My limit of 269 miles per tank still stands firm! I am not impressed.

However I will do an oil analysis soon, as I have lower oil pressure. The UOA may give some good info on the wear properties.

Chris

Robbie Alexander · Sep 20, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by Toyota Steve:
I have a toyota 4runner with a very tricked up 22r. It has about 25,000 on it since I built it, and I've only run M1 in it. I started with 15 - 50 ( I'm in florida), but also tried 0 - 40. the 0 - 40 had obvious performance increase, --**--

From what I have seen and heard, the Toyo trucks tend to like a heavier oil. What Visc ????
for me when I got my '97 Taco, the Mechanic told me they tend to like the thicker oils.
Anyway, I've been considering trying another 10-30 or maybe a 10-40 but I do like the Straights.
Get the best bang for MY buck as far as burn with the straight 30 and more than half the time mainly in summer I bump IT up to a 40 or thereabouts with a V.I.; the 5w-30 I still don't like and the 10w-30 a little more in MY comfort Zone, and yes it does FEEL better but more burn which I don't like. Mut now that I have 382600 on her I'm thinking she's a little more broke in than before and JUST maybe she won't burn as much.
As for the Seat of the pants DYNO, I'd say that the 5/10w-30's under load are less than Straight Weights and better for awhile without, but most of them I just don't like if you use the truck hard.

TooSlick · Sep 20, 2003

Steve,

I'd probably run something that's thick enough to meet the ACEA A3/B3 specs if Florida, whether it's a 30wt like the Amsoil 10w-30 or a 40wt like the M1, 0w-40.

Oil pressure of 45 psi @ 3000 rpms sounds fine for normal use, but for heavy towing I'd feel better with something closer to 55-60 psi to reduce main bearing wear from crank deflection under heavy loads.

Tooslick

pscholte · Sep 21, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by Shannow:
(The 25W-70 starts pretty well down to 20F)

Shannow,

Just when I think you're a "man among boys"

using that 25W70 stuff in the first place you indicate you have used it in winter...you da man!

Performance increase with lighter viscosity

Similar threads