Pentosin ATF1 labeled a Group IV!

[Lubricious]

I recently did an ATF service on a new rebilt 01M tranny for my VW Jetta using Pennzoil Multi-Vehicle Formula ATF as a substitute for factory fill Pentosin. After reading many opinions and talking to several mechs, I began to wonder about the Pentosin ATF which has been called either a synthetic blend or a Group III. I was able to find an auto parts store that carried it for what is considered a bargain at $11.47 per quart, and was surprised to see " Chemical family: Polyalphaolefin " . Now I'm considering draining the Pennzoil synthetic blend for 5 quarts of this, especially after talking to a friend who owns a Cottman's and says that he believes the clucthes wont slide right using any other oil on this car. What you do think of that?

 

[Audi Junkie]

I agree, use the Pentosin.

 

[FowVay]

Have you looked at a bottle of the volkswagen fluid? It specifically says on the bottle that it is a highly refined mineral oil.

 

[Ken2]

I'm surprised the Pennzoil stuff is OK for a VW--I'd check that with Pennzoil. I'd use Red Line D4. Before you do spend a lot of money, contact each oil company to be sure what you buy is indeed suitable. Ken

 

[Lubricious]

quote:

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Originally posted by FowVay: Have you looked at a bottle of the volkswagen fluid? It specifically says on the bottle that it is a highly refined mineral oil.

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This bottle of Pentosin was not the one that has only the VW label on it. It says Pentosin ATF1 on it, and on the back it says it a PAO.

 

[Lubricious]

I think I and another dub may have stumbled on to this confusion about the ingredients of Pentosin ATF---there is the ATF1 which is a PAO, and an ATF Form 2D which is likely the one that is packaged as VW label. This is the product data of ATF2D, their site says nothing about the ATF1 I saw for sale, which makes me think maybe it's a new product. If in fact the 2D is the stuff in the VW labeled bottle, then it's even more of an outrageous rip-off than I thought! http://www.pentosin.de/eng/products/gearoil/body_gearoil.html

 

[FowVay]

The factory fill fluid for VW is actually Esso LT 71141 fluid. I have spoken specifically with the main chemist/formulator at Pentosin and he verified this. The sole reason that I commented to this thread is that you said that you replaced the 'factory fill Pentosin' with Pennzoil. I just thought I'd clarify that the factory fill is not synthetic. Maybe I have misunderstood what you are saying.

 

[Lubricious]

While I am aware of Esso LT71141 being used in some VW models, the 01M Tranny in MkIII and MkIV Jetta's and Golf's was "made" into a "lifetime" (read; no service, no dipstick)transmission by switching to a synthetic blend fluid made by Pentosin as was the radiator coolant. Prior 01M's used dino ATF with a recommended service interval. This is why Pentosin bottles ATF in a VW branded bottle as it is the OEM fluid, and any other fluid will void their "lifetime" warranty claims. I humbly suggest that your Pentosin source is not an expert on VW, one of the Pentosin ATF's, probably D2 was the OEM fill on both my original and JATCO replacement tranny. Of course, if you have any written documents concerning this I would love to see them.

 

[FowVay]

I have to disagree with you. I know that VW issued the service bulletin back in 1995 for the specific instructions to use LT71141 fluid to eliminate the foaming issues that regular DEXRON III was having. I know the chief chemist responsible for the premier blending of the ESSO LT 71141 fluid and I know what his royalty for the product is per liter sold. I also know that it is what is filled in the VW bottles that are labeled mineral oil. As for the VW transmissions, the old 096 transmission was the last to use Dexron 3. O1M's and 01P's (heavy T4 chassis VW trucks/Vans) were filled with VW lifetime fill starting way back in 1996. As for the coolant - the coolant isn't Pentosin either. The coolant is Glysantin. Hence the "G" in the name. It is a product patented by BASF. Sure, Pentosin makes a compatible product which can be used but Pentosin does not make the original fill product. The G12(G30 on the open market)sold at VW/Audi here in the USA along with the BMW coolant (former VW G11-G48 on the open market) and the Mercedes coolant (G05) are all produced by Ashland Chemical under authorization of BASF of Austria. If you wish to see the actual product then look no further than: www.glysantin.de . You'll see all three of the products mentioned and if you're fluent in Deutsch then you can also surf their site and learn the history behind the product. [ July 27, 2004, 06:57 PM: Message edited by: FowVay ]

 

[Lubricious]

Quoted: As for the VW transmissions, the old 096 transmission was the last to use Dexron 3. O1M's and 01P's (heavy T4 chassis VW trucks/Vans) were filled with VW lifetime fill starting way back in 1996. So you are saying that the VW Lifetime fluid is Esso LT71141?

 

[FowVay]

Yes. But please understand that I'm not knocking Pentosin. They are majority owned by Exxon/Mobil (owned 60%) and make excellent products. They have a incredible engine and transmission test facility in England and are routinely the first choice for chemical research when it comes to problem solving for the major manufacturers such as Getrag and ZF. I was just hoping to point out that they weren't the provider of the VW coolant and ATF but of course they do make high quality substitutes.

 

[Lubricious]

Is the ESSO formula at least a hydrocracked Group III then?