Post on USMB Subaru forum as above saying use anything bar 'Pennzoil with their wax based oil'. What is his basis for this which I find kinda strange?
'Pennzoil with their wax based oil'
- Thread starter sprintman
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It's the whole parafin wax claim, which has largly been debunked here. I think it's been stated that pennzoil, conoco, and chevron/havoline all use the same group II + basestock? It may have been a problem in the past, but probably not now. I hope not as I have been using the stuff for quite some time ![[Eek!]](images/icons/shocked.gif)
Yes I use it and want to debunk this wax bs. Just need to make sure I get the facts right.
Paraffin is a chemical term derived from para (without) and affin (affinity), and applied to a wide range of chemicals. A more technical name for the same class is alkanes. Except for burning rather well, once started, they are not very reactive. They make up most of our fuels, lubes, waxes, and even plastics. Most of your Pennsylvania oil can be separated into fuel, lube, or wax by simple distillation. Thus Pennsylvania oil was highly prized by the early automotive industry. Your paraffin based oils indeed have been separated out from from the same stuff on the top of home made jelly. Your asphaltic crudes also produce the roads the car runs on. Fortunately modern refining leaves neither in our dino.
para is also a position with respects to a primary group on a benzene back-bone.
i.e. PABA: Para-Amino Benzoic Acid.
Thought it wouldn't hurt to share the knowledge.
So where are people getting this wax/Pennzoil thing and why only Pennzoil?
quote:as someone said....'parrafin' is a name that used to be given to wax. PA crude was high in 'nitro-parafinnic' molecules which is not the same thing, but it is close enuf that it sounds scary and uses scary language (to paraphrase George Carlin) In PA where I live, QS and Penn and Wolfs head have been the bane oil of this state for a 100 years. The junkyards are full of cars not there due to gummed up motors, but rather crashes or severe rust.
Originally posted by sprintman: So where are people getting this wax/Pennzoil thing and why only Pennzoil?
Has anyone popped off a valve cover for whatever reason who has been running pennz dino for the life of their motor? I saw the insides of my Dad's 4.3L Blazer which has run on Pennz, mostly 5w-30, and there was no sludge, just a very very light coating of varnish on non-bearing surfaces. Looked fairly clean for over 100K.
Paraffinic crudes are the ones most highly sought to make lube oils. Pennzoil made the mistake of pointing out that their oils are made from only the highest quality paraffinic crudes. Someone, somewhere, made the association that the wax (removed by solvent extraction) would gum up the engine and the misconception stuck.
[ September 11, 2003, 11:49 AM: Message edited by: Jay ]
Base stocks refined from paraffin crudes (most notably Pennsylvania crudes) do harbor a relatively high percentage of paraffin waxes after fractional distillation because the two molecules are in the same molecular weight range. But the actual paraffin base stocks are not the same as paraffin wax. The biggest problem with residual paraffin wax content in middle distillates out of the fractional tower from paraffin crude, and, still present to some degree in solvent refined oil (Group I), is that it raises the gel point in cold weather. At normal temperatures in solution, paraffin wax is a pretty good lubricant since it is relatively non-reactive. However, with the advent of catalytic hydrogen isomerization, most of these residual waxes are actually converted to desirable lower gel point lubricant molecules in Group II and, even more so, in Group III base stocks. But for old-timers, and their spawn, brought up on the notion that since Pennsyvania crudes were paraffinic in nature, rather than the less desirable asphaltic crudes found elsewhere, Pennsylvania crudes will always be suspect of harboring nasty, gummy, sludge-prone waxes just lurking to ruin an engine. It's B.S.
[ September 11, 2003, 09:29 PM: Message edited by: Ray H ]
Ray what a way with words you have! Now I'm armed to shoot down any waxhead I believe, thanks..s
quote:Well you know that varnish keeps the non bearing surfaces from rusting don't you.
Originally posted by Drew99GT: Has anyone popped off a valve cover for whatever reason who has been running pennz dino for the life of their motor? I saw the insides of my Dad's 4.3L Blazer which has run on Pennz, mostly 5w-30, and there was no sludge, just a very very light coating of varnish on non-bearing surfaces. Looked fairly clean for over 100K.
![[Big Grin]](images/icons/grin.gif){kind=icon}
quote:Well **** , all those peeps out there with spotless engines running synthetic and no varnish must be pissed now
Originally posted by badnews:quote:Well you know that varnish keeps the non bearing surfaces from rusting don't you.
Originally posted by Drew99GT: Has anyone popped off a valve cover for whatever reason who has been running pennz dino for the life of their motor? I saw the insides of my Dad's 4.3L Blazer which has run on Pennz, mostly 5w-30, and there was no sludge, just a very very light coating of varnish on non-bearing surfaces. Looked fairly clean for over 100K.
![[crushedcar]](/forums/graemlins/crushedcar.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](images/icons/rolleyes.gif){kind=icon}
Better go get some "varnish" additive from the store so my engine doesn't rust! ![[LOL!]](/forums/graemlins/lol.gif)
Napthenics are still used for ammonia compressors but are being replaced rapidly by Group II oils in those plants that want less down time, less oxidation, less wear, and more efficiency. But it is hard to kill old habits. (for the spanish speakers I have analysis and pictures on my site)
To those who had a few kind words about my post above, thanks. I'll try not to let your comments go to my head. (well, more than a week or two...)
quote:I had to replace the head gasket on my truck a few years ago. It had over 20 years and 100K of mostly short trips including moderate winters. For the last 10 years, it was getting fresh Pennzoil 5W-30 dino every 3 months. For a few years in the 80's I was using QS and 6 months intervals until my Pontiac Phoenix sludged up (100K?). I had started it on Pennzoil, but switched. In early 2002, I replaced the head gasket in my 92 Grand Am HO Quad-4 at 180K. After the factory break in, it never saw anything except Pennzoil dino again, every 3 months whether it needed or not. Both engines had some varnish, but little sludge. My conclusion, stick to 3 month intervals, and don't worry about sludge. I blame the Phoneix sludge more on engine design and 6 month intervals than the QS. It was the Chevy short block cut down to a V-6. [ September 11, 2003, 12:39 PM: Message edited by: labman ]
Originally posted by Drew99GT: Has anyone popped off a valve cover for whatever reason who has been running pennz dino for the life of their motor? I saw the insides of my Dad's 4.3L Blazer which has run on Pennz, mostly 5w-30, and there was no sludge, just a very very light coating of varnish on non-bearing surfaces. Looked fairly clean for over 100K.
quote:Ive run synthetic in vehicles for 100K's of miles and see the same amount of 'varnish' in there as non synthetic. Of course I actually take motors apart (all engines require an eventual rebuild, regardless of oil used) and Im willing to bet large sums of $$ that the 'amsoil crowd' who claim spotless motors have never actually looked inside any farther than the inside of the oil cap...
Originally posted by Drew99GT: Well **** , all those peeps out there with spotless engines running synthetic and no varnish must be pissed now
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