Pennzoil Ultra 5w30, 2002 Toyota Tacoma, 7553 mile

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Originally Posted By: mrdctaylor
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Question - How many OCI's was the M1 used prior to the UOA listed as comparison? I ask because my experience with M1 so far has been a lot of cleaning and suspension (dirty looking oil early in the OCI). Wondering what that impact would be on the UOA.


All of 'em! ;-)

Bascically, since about 5000 miles on this vehicle and I've always used M1 since the 2nd oil change. I now have 130K miles.


Thanks! One last question - What made you change after all those miles, why PU?
 
I'd just read some things about M1 not giving the same great UOAs it used to give, so I figured I'd do a couple of UOAs myself and see how my engine liked the two different oils. I just always want what's best for my engine. It might not make a noticeable difference in longevity, but for around the same price I just want to use the best.
 
Originally Posted By: wag123
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Do you detail the engine? There is silicon in most of those products

You are confusing silicone and silicon. They are two different things.
Silicones are inert synthetic polymers that are commonly used in sealants, adhesives, and lubricants.
Silicon is a metalloid chemical element, better known as sand or dirt.


Lol ! Yup, I did...need to start using the reading glasses full time....
 
Originally Posted By: mrdctaylor
I'd just read some things about M1 not giving the same great UOAs it used to give, so I figured I'd do a couple of UOAs myself and see how my engine liked the two different oils. I just always want what's best for my engine. It might not make a noticeable difference in longevity, but for around the same price I just want to use the best.


Well you proved your point. Bet the engines quieter too. Countless posts on here suggest SN means better across the board. Maybe not. Based on your results I will be switching to PU, see how it goes.
 
Originally Posted By: wag123
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Do you detail the engine? There is silicon in most of those products

You are confusing silicone and silicon. They are two different things.
Silicones are inert synthetic polymers that are commonly used in sealants, adhesives, and lubricants.
Silicon is a metalloid chemical element, better known as sand or dirt.


Don't most silicone sealers contain silicon compounds? Is this not connected with why silicone RTV gasket maker used in engines shows up as Si on UOA reports?
 
Originally Posted By: cchase
Originally Posted By: wag123
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Do you detail the engine? There is silicon in most of those products

You are confusing silicone and silicon. They are two different things.
Silicones are inert synthetic polymers that are commonly used in sealants, adhesives, and lubricants.
Silicon is a metalloid chemical element, better known as sand or dirt.


Don't most silicone sealers contain silicon compounds? Is this not connected with why silicone RTV gasket maker used in engines shows up as Si on UOA reports?

Yes and yes.
 
Originally Posted By: cchase

Don't most silicone sealers contain silicon compounds? Is this not connected with why silicone RTV gasket maker used in engines shows up as Si on UOA reports?

Except for new engines, most of the silicon showing up in UOAs is from dirt ingestion.
 
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Originally Posted By: wag123
Originally Posted By: cchase

Don't most silicone sealers contain silicon compounds? Is this not connected with why silicone RTV gasket maker used in engines shows up as Si on UOA reports?

Except for new engines, most of the silicon showing up in UOAs is from dirt ingestion.


My point was that while your contention that silicone != silicon is technically true, a silicone-based cleaner as suggested by LeakySeals could also show up as Si in a UOA.
 
Originally Posted By: cchase
Originally Posted By: wag123
Originally Posted By: cchase

Don't most silicone sealers contain silicon compounds? Is this not connected with why silicone RTV gasket maker used in engines shows up as Si on UOA reports?

Except for new engines, most of the silicon showing up in UOAs is from dirt ingestion.


My point was that while your contention that silicone != silicon is technically true, a silicone-based cleaner as suggested by LeakySeals could also show up as Si in a UOA.


I was thinking the chemical base was the same. It was dirt before it was tire shine.
smile.gif
Guess I was wrong, why the "e" is missing.
 
Silicon (Si) is a fundamental element, Silicone is a chemical compound that contains Silicon (Si) atoms.
As an analogy, look at it this way... Carbon (C) is a fundamental element, Carbon Dioxide (Co2) is a chemical compound that contains Carbon (C) atoms. Just because Carbon Dioxide has Carbon atoms in it does NOT mean that you can remove the carbon atoms, and carbon atoms can't come out (or leach out) of carbon dioxide by themselves under ANY circumstances. In the same way, you can't remove the Silicon atoms from Silicone either.
If UOA results are actually showing the chemical compound Silicone instead of the fundamental element Silicon (Si), even in a small amount, then UOA testing is fundamentally flawed. I don't think that this is the case. I think that the results are actually showing the fundamental element Silicon (Si) or sand/dirt. This is what the test is for and this is what we want to know when we pay for a test. This being the case, if a UOA shows Si in it then there is sand/dirt in the oil (even though it may very well be sub-micron in size) plain and simple.
 
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Ok so there are reports of high dirt/sand levels with M1 then suddenly it drops with PU. Where did it go? Obviously the M1 didn't come with it. Raises the question - could the drop mean the suspension properties of PU are not as good as the M1? Is it sitting in his oil pan?
 
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Originally Posted By: wag123
Silicon (Si) is a fundamental element, Silicone is a chemical compound that contains Silicon (Si) atoms.
As an analogy, look at it this way... Carbon (C) is a fundamental element, Carbon Dioxide (Co2) is a chemical compound that contains Carbon (C) atoms. Just because Carbon Dioxide has Carbon atoms in it does NOT mean that you can remove the carbon atoms, and carbon atoms can't come out (or leach out) of carbon dioxide by themselves under ANY circumstances. In the same way, you can't remove the Silicon atoms from Silicone either.
If UOA results are actually showing the chemical compound Silicone instead of the fundamental element Silicon (Si), even in a small amount, then UOA testing is fundamentally flawed. I don't think that this is the case. I think that the results are actually showing the fundamental element Silicon (Si) or sand/dirt. This is what the test is for and this is what we want to know when we pay for a test. This being the case, if a UOA shows Si in it then there is sand/dirt in the oil (even though it may very well be sub-micron in size) plain and simple.

You obviously know some chemistry but there are some things you are missing. UOAs show concentrations of elements only and the test detects elements whether they are free elements or part of molecules. Testing sand, silicone glue, and silicone oil would all show the element silicon because they all contain it. The molecules the silicon may be part of is irrelevant.
 
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
I think you should check the air filter/intake system to make sure there is no leak/crack on the system, the silicon is high with both UOA's.


tacomas are NOTORIUOS for having a [censored] filtration system. keep the filter pretty clean. dont let it get as dirty as some allow with other vehicles. this will help.
 
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