Pennzoil PZ-184 for Pentastar 3.6

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4
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ON
Greetings, Long time lurker, first time poster. I was wondering if anyone has used the Pennzoil PZ-184 filters in their Pentastar. On my most recent oil change (2015 T&C), I was planning to use the PZ filter I had on hand, but decided to compare it to the Mopar filter I had just removed. I was surprised to find that the inlet diameter on the PZ was significantly smaller. than the Mopar. I then went to a store to take a look at a Fram and a Canadian Tire OE filter (most likely Wix). Both of those had a similar diameter inlet to the Mopar. I decided not to use the PZ filter, but thought I would ask the if anyone ran them on their engine and noticed elevated oil pressure or other issues. Im including a few pics I took to show the differences. Mopar on left, PZ on right: [Linked Image] PZ inlet closeup: [Linked Image] Fram: [Linked Image] PZ on left, CT OE (wix?) on right: [Linked Image]
 
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JC1

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6,107
Location
Oshawa, Ontario Canada
Thanks for the comparison pics. Yeah that is way to small IMO. I'm using Fram ultras only now on my Pentastar. The oil stays cleaner for longer. Prior to that I used two Mopars and then went to the Wix filter.i pick them up on rockauto usually buying 4-6 ultras at a time to get the shipping down to under $2 each per filter. Where did you pickup the Pennzoil filter from anyways?
 
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paradoxum

Thread starter
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ON
Originally Posted by JC1
Thanks for the comparison pics. Yeah that is way to small IMO. I'm using Fram ultras only now on my Pentastar. The oil stays cleaner for longer. Prior to that I used two Mopars and then went to the Wix filter.i pick them up on rockauto usually buying 4-6 ultras at a time to get the shipping down to under $2 each per filter. Where did you pickup the Pennzoil filter from anyways?
I picked up the PZ's in bulk from a store closeout. Good thing I paid next to nothing for them. I'm trying to get a hold of someone at Pennzoil to see if there were different revisions of this filter. I find it odd this would be deemed equivalent to OE by a major brand. The Fram ultra looks well built and lots of people are running them. Not cheap, but still cheaper than what we can get the mopar's for locally.
 
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3,195
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Western S.C.
Originally Posted by paradoxum
... I was surprised to find that the inlet diameter on the PZ was significantly smaller. than the Mopar.
How can a cartridge filter possibly have an "inlet diameter"? I don't understand how the outlet diameter matters either, if that's the center hole in the end you're showing. Does it seal against the end face, or against the hole diameter somehow?
 
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2,896
Location
High Tax Illinois
Well.......2:11AM............It was bothering me. So.........A Mobil 1 M1C-456A has the same top/bottom inside diameter as a FRAM XG11665 and a MOPAR MO-349. Used a dial indicator to measure.
 
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1,351
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texas
I wouldn't be bothered with that difference in diameter. Any pressure drop across that diameter difference at high flow is greatly swamped by the pressure drop across the filter media. while it looks dramatic you would have to have thick oil blowing through there like a garden hose to get a significant pressure drop difference between the two hole sizes.
 

wwillson

Staff member
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3,906
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Naperville, IL
Send the Pennzoil filters to me, I'll use them in my Pentastars. Comparing the outlet diameters of the two filters, there is no way the smaller outlet of the Pennzoil filter will cause any meaningful restriction.
 

paradoxum

Thread starter
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4
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ON
Originally Posted by CR94
Originally Posted by paradoxum
... I was surprised to find that the inlet diameter on the PZ was significantly smaller. than the Mopar.
How can a cartridge filter possibly have an "inlet diameter"? I don't understand how the outlet diameter matters either, if that's the center hole in the end you're showing. Does it seal against the end face, or against the hole diameter somehow?
As per the pics, the center hole on the PZ is at least a 1/4" smaller than other filters on the market. This is a restriction in my opinion. The hole on the other side is the same size, but that's not as significant since that side slides into the bypass valve in the cap. I believe the oil flow is into the end with the plastic nipple, through the filter media (inside out) and back into the block. If the filter media is contaminated, the bypass valve that the other end of the filter sits in, opens. Perhaps as others have mentioned the difference is not significant enough to make a difference, but I would like to hear first hand experiences from someone who has ran this filter.
 
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Waco, TX
I have seen 800 HP Big Block V8 engines run at full boogie with a "clean oil outlet" hole a LOT smaller than that! All of you who say the hole is "too small" are just flat out wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong
 
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10,004
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Waco, TX
Originally Posted by wwillson
Send the Pennzoil filters to me, I'll use them in my Pentastars. Comparing the outlet diameters of the two filters, there is no way the smaller outlet of the Pennzoil filter will cause any meaningful restriction.
absolutely 100% correct!!!!
 
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27,856
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PNW
Originally Posted by paradoxum
Originally Posted by CR94
Originally Posted by paradoxum
... I was surprised to find that the inlet diameter on the PZ was significantly smaller. than the Mopar.
How can a cartridge filter possibly have an "inlet diameter"? I don't understand how the outlet diameter matters either, if that's the center hole in the end you're showing. Does it seal against the end face, or against the hole diameter somehow?
As per the pics, the center hole on the PZ is at least a 1/4" smaller than other filters on the market. This is a restriction in my opinion. The hole on the other side is the same size, but that's not as significant since that side slides into the bypass valve in the cap. I believe the oil flow is into the end with the plastic nipple, through the filter media (inside out) and back into the block. If the filter media is contaminated, the bypass valve that the other end of the filter sits in, opens. Perhaps as others have mentioned the difference is not significant enough to make a difference, but I would like to hear first hand experiences from someone who has ran this filter.
The smaller hole on the PZ is still way larger than any main oil gallery the filter feeds. The difference isn't even noticable to the engine, plus the oil is supplied by a positive displacement pump, not a constant pressure source like your house's water system.
 
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2,896
Location
High Tax Illinois
Originally Posted by paradoxum
Originally Posted by CR94
Originally Posted by paradoxum
... I was surprised to find that the inlet diameter on the PZ was significantly smaller. than the Mopar.
How can a cartridge filter possibly have an "inlet diameter"? I don't understand how the outlet diameter matters either, if that's the center hole in the end you're showing. Does it seal against the end face, or against the hole diameter somehow?
As per the pics, the center hole on the PZ is at least a 1/4" smaller than other filters on the market. This is a restriction in my opinion. The hole on the other side is the same size, but that's not as significant since that side slides into the bypass valve in the cap. I believe the oil flow is into the end with the plastic nipple, through the filter media (inside out) and back into the block. If the filter media is contaminated, the bypass valve that the other end of the filter sits in, opens. Perhaps as others have mentioned the difference is not significant enough to make a difference, but I would like to hear first hand experiences from someone who has ran this filter.
I think oil flow goes outside to inside. There is no cage or wire backing on the outside of filter.
 
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3,195
Location
Western S.C.
Originally Posted by Linctex
... All of you who say the hole is "too small" are just flat out wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong
Yes! Besides, it can't possibly be an inlet hole, as I mentioned earlier.
 

paradoxum

Thread starter
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4
Location
ON
With the plastic cage inside it makes sense that the flow would be from the outside in, which makes the hole in question the outlet. I did some digging and got a hold of a product guy at purolator who "makes" the filters for Pennzoil. He said the critical pieces in their spec is the relief valve hole diameter, the nipple with the o-ring and overall length. The filters are generally manufactured like most things, by the lowest bidder. The forms they use vary, but he did not think the hole diameter would have any significant impact on flow considering other factors like pleat material etc. Based on this and everyone's constructive input, I conclude the filters are ok to use. Thanks.
 
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