PENNZOIL PLATINUM
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YUK! YUK! YUK!quote:
Originally posted by buster:
I corrected myself, you must have looked at only the one statement. Must be an Amsoil salesman.
pscholte: Baseball this afternoon along with my nap, which I'm disturbing by sniffing oil.
RACIN tonight and all day tomorrow.
I said my nose was untrained. Could have been an aviation smell or the sweet aroma from the fabric softner coming from the dryer vent.
buster: That was a good come back.
I said my nose was untrained. Could have been an aviation smell or the sweet aroma from the fabric softner coming from the dryer vent.
buster: That was a good come back.
LOL I do use a Mac, but mainly WinXP, and a younger Netware fan on the server end.quote:
Originally posted by TexasTDI:
You must be a Mac user....
Win95 was light years ahead of Win3.1. And Win3.1 was light years ahead of MS-DOS.
I've been using Win2000 since day one and it's the best OS out there IMO. Especially for stability.
Win 3.1 was based on DOS as was Win95/98/ME. You can't run them without loading the corresponding DOS version, even though it was labeled "Win95 DOS", it was still DOS in all it's g(l)ory. They're all unstable 16 bit operating systems with a 32 bit "Win32" sub system thrown on top. No one talks about the term "thunking" anymore as 16 bit apps have (mostly) ridden out to pasture.
OS/2 was a wonderful system, it even ran Win 3.1 apps better than Win 3.1, but suffered from Microsoft's crushing blow in the marketing arena. Besides, IBM couldn't market a space heater to an eskimo. So that good product just sat on the shelf and collected a thick layer of dust at your local Egghead or Best Buy while Microsoft sold millions of boxes of Win95. It is pretty cool to walk into the local Menard's and see them still running OS/2 Warp server behind the return counter.
Remember people lining up to buy Windows 95 just as people did to see the latest Star Wars movie?
I do agree, Win2000 is a VERY stable OS. IMO, the first OS where they got it "right". Not ripping buster, but in my career, bad products do sell. WinXP is not a bad product at all. Thank God. Oh yeah, thank God for FireFox/Mozilla to KEEP WinXP out of it's own way....
But to buster's credit, anyone remember Microsoft BOB? It didn't sell. A true DOA product. However, the silly dancing paperclip/dog/cat made their way into later version of MS Office...
Yes, but remember OS/2 was originally a joint development between Microsoft and IBM. The split came with OS/2 2.0 (I think). That's when IBM continued to develop OS/2 on their own, and Microsoft continued with their 32-bit OS which eventually debuted as Windows NT 3.1. From that perspective, OS/2 is the legitimate ancestor of Windows NT, 2000, and XP.
Grrrrrr.........
Ive explained this before. I do live way up in the panhandle and Im maybe 90 minutes from the Kansas state line. Altitude here in my hometown is over 3000 feet. Everything looks flat as a pancake around me but we still have high altitude.
That said, AE Haas and others state that OW oil gives arguably better start up protection and Im inclined to believe them because Ive yet to see a convincing case where 10W or 15W rated oil is said to give better start up protection than OW oil.
This debate gets old. If you believe that 10W-20 oil gives better start up protection than OW-20 oil then share why and lets discuss it. I will ask Haas and Allen and Buster and John Browning and Molakule and Terry and all the other experts to chime in with their opinions.
The fact that I live in Texas doesnt necessarily predicate a need to run 20W-50 in my Honda and under my drifing conditions so I can protect it better. My driving "usually" consists of sub 20 minute travel OR 100 mile highway trips. Highway miles are supposed to be easy on a car.
But hey, Im not the smartest guy on this board about oil and its why I listen to others. In the end without wanting to bring up the 20 versus 30 debate I must state that Ive still seen a convincing argument that higher rated Ws give better start up and short trip response than OW rated oils. I like my oils to play limbo with the W rating and the lower rating that I see the better.
In short, Ive listened to what Haas has written and I kind of believe the guy.
Happy Motoring All,
Bugshu
Ive explained this before. I do live way up in the panhandle and Im maybe 90 minutes from the Kansas state line. Altitude here in my hometown is over 3000 feet. Everything looks flat as a pancake around me but we still have high altitude.
That said, AE Haas and others state that OW oil gives arguably better start up protection and Im inclined to believe them because Ive yet to see a convincing case where 10W or 15W rated oil is said to give better start up protection than OW oil.
This debate gets old. If you believe that 10W-20 oil gives better start up protection than OW-20 oil then share why and lets discuss it. I will ask Haas and Allen and Buster and John Browning and Molakule and Terry and all the other experts to chime in with their opinions.
The fact that I live in Texas doesnt necessarily predicate a need to run 20W-50 in my Honda and under my drifing conditions so I can protect it better. My driving "usually" consists of sub 20 minute travel OR 100 mile highway trips. Highway miles are supposed to be easy on a car.
But hey, Im not the smartest guy on this board about oil and its why I listen to others. In the end without wanting to bring up the 20 versus 30 debate I must state that Ive still seen a convincing argument that higher rated Ws give better start up and short trip response than OW rated oils. I like my oils to play limbo with the W rating and the lower rating that I see the better.
In short, Ive listened to what Haas has written and I kind of believe the guy.
Happy Motoring All,
Bugshu
Whew! I say just use GC and forget about the non-essentials.quote:
Originally posted by Bugshu:
Grrrrrr.........
Ive explained this before. I do live way up in the panhandle and Im maybe 90 minutes from the Kansas state line. Altitude here in my hometown is over 3000 feet. Everything looks flat as a pancake around me but we still have high altitude.
That said, AE Haas and others state that OW oil gives arguably better start up protection and Im inclined to believe them because Ive yet to see a convincing case where 10W or 15W rated oil is said to give better start up protection than OW oil.
This debate gets old. If you believe that 10W-20 oil gives better start up protection than OW-20 oil then share why and lets discuss it. I will ask Haas and Allen and Buster and John Browning and Molakule and Terry and all the other experts to chime in with their opinions.
The fact that I live in Texas doesnt necessarily predicate a need to run 20W-50 in my Honda and under my drifing conditions so I can protect it better. My driving "usually" consists of sub 20 minute travel OR 100 mile highway trips. Highway miles are supposed to be easy on a car.
But hey, Im not the smartest guy on this board about oil and its why I listen to others. In the end without wanting to bring up the 20 versus 30 debate I must state that Ive still seen a convincing argument that higher rated Ws give better start up and short trip response than OW rated oils. I like my oils to play limbo with the W rating and the lower rating that I see the better.
In short, Ive listened to what Haas has written and I kind of believe the guy.
Happy Motoring All,
Bugshu
I just want a OW-20 Platinum oil and Im not sure Pennzoil is anywhere near making one though Johnny has hinted they would.
Having read AE Haas's articles I think OW-20 is the way to go for my Honda and I have a huge horde of now discontinued M1 but it would still make me feel better if there was a new quality synthetic available on the market.
I like the M1 in that if I decide that it needs a higher CST I can blend it with some OW-40 or OW-30 M1 or I can add some of Molakules SX-UP or Valvoline additives to do the same and thicken it a bit. By the time I put in LC though Im starting to approach additive overkill.
I think Haas's point that OW-20 can run thicker at certain operating temperatures than 5W-30 is a good point and I trust the engineers that designed my car for a 20 viscosity oil. The question is whether OW gives added start up and early life protection over a 5W and I think that it probably does.
I do really well when I listen to smart people like Haas, Molakule, Terry, Ugly, and Gary.
It saddens me that Mobil killed their OW-20 line and perhaps downgraded their regular M1 line.
Im hoping that Pennzoil will step into an untapped marketplace.
However, everybody that Ive ever talked to at Autozones, Advance Autoparts, and most mechanics tell me that OW oil is weightless and is wesson oil and people wont buy what they dont understand.
I see people going into Wal-Mart all the time and buying Quaker State and walking right by Phillips TropArctic or Valvoline Maxlife and I just shake my head.
Im coming very close to the opinion that I never want to buy a used car again unless its an absolute classic that cant be obtained anyother way.
OW-20 will be the deciding factor for me in the Platinum game and so far Ive never seen a single bottle of it.
Happy Motoring All,
Bugshu
Having read AE Haas's articles I think OW-20 is the way to go for my Honda and I have a huge horde of now discontinued M1 but it would still make me feel better if there was a new quality synthetic available on the market.
I like the M1 in that if I decide that it needs a higher CST I can blend it with some OW-40 or OW-30 M1 or I can add some of Molakules SX-UP or Valvoline additives to do the same and thicken it a bit. By the time I put in LC though Im starting to approach additive overkill.
I think Haas's point that OW-20 can run thicker at certain operating temperatures than 5W-30 is a good point and I trust the engineers that designed my car for a 20 viscosity oil. The question is whether OW gives added start up and early life protection over a 5W and I think that it probably does.
I do really well when I listen to smart people like Haas, Molakule, Terry, Ugly, and Gary.
It saddens me that Mobil killed their OW-20 line and perhaps downgraded their regular M1 line.
Im hoping that Pennzoil will step into an untapped marketplace.
However, everybody that Ive ever talked to at Autozones, Advance Autoparts, and most mechanics tell me that OW oil is weightless and is wesson oil and people wont buy what they dont understand.
I see people going into Wal-Mart all the time and buying Quaker State and walking right by Phillips TropArctic or Valvoline Maxlife and I just shake my head.
Im coming very close to the opinion that I never want to buy a used car again unless its an absolute classic that cant be obtained anyother way.
OW-20 will be the deciding factor for me in the Platinum game and so far Ive never seen a single bottle of it.
Happy Motoring All,
Bugshu
And you won't see a bottle of it until sometime mid to late July. That's when the product will be introduced.
Without wanting to offend the elves Ive mused aloud before that perhaps part of the reason that GC posts such wonderful UOA's is that it is a OW (30) oil and that start up wear is reduced. Its pretty rare to see a bad UOA from GC.
Looking down the board on UOA's OW oils seem to do quite well. Its somewhat rare to see a bad UOA from M1 OW (20) oil and Haas's report on his Ferrari was a treat to see. Now Im not claiming to be an expert but Im guessing that his Ferrari puts out more energy and heat than my Honda and still the oil held up well.
Theres a good UOA from a BMW user who went with M1 OW (40) and some smart people are telling him not to change.
There is a Honda Accord that posted up a good UOA with M1 OW (30)and people seemed reasonably impressed.
Quite a few Amsoil OW (30) Uoas have been popping up lately and they have all seemed good except that silicone readings have been a bit high and I dont know if people arent changing filters or if there is something about the oil. Im not enough of an expert to decide what the problem could be.
We had a Saab Turbo running Saab OW (30) oil and Blackstone commented, "Saab engines aren't among the best wearing types we analyze oil from, but your may be the nicest wearing engine we've seen in a week. The level of wear would be normal for a Toyota or Honda, but it is excellent for a Saab. The balance for the metals is perfect for this type and there was nothing found in the wear that would suggest any problems."
Now I could be wrong and perhaps the guy with a spreadsheet would like to comment but it seems that when people use OW oils that generally they get good results. There will always be exceptions to the rule but Im noticing patterns starting to develop.
Those patterns are consistant with what Im reading from Haas and when you add up the numbers you can start getting a feel for the bottom line and that is that OW oils seem to be pretty good at protecting cars.
I think even the Elves would agree though they can get angry when their secrets escape the forest.
Happy Motoring All,
Bugshu
Looking down the board on UOA's OW oils seem to do quite well. Its somewhat rare to see a bad UOA from M1 OW (20) oil and Haas's report on his Ferrari was a treat to see. Now Im not claiming to be an expert but Im guessing that his Ferrari puts out more energy and heat than my Honda and still the oil held up well.
Theres a good UOA from a BMW user who went with M1 OW (40) and some smart people are telling him not to change.
There is a Honda Accord that posted up a good UOA with M1 OW (30)and people seemed reasonably impressed.
Quite a few Amsoil OW (30) Uoas have been popping up lately and they have all seemed good except that silicone readings have been a bit high and I dont know if people arent changing filters or if there is something about the oil. Im not enough of an expert to decide what the problem could be.
We had a Saab Turbo running Saab OW (30) oil and Blackstone commented, "Saab engines aren't among the best wearing types we analyze oil from, but your may be the nicest wearing engine we've seen in a week. The level of wear would be normal for a Toyota or Honda, but it is excellent for a Saab. The balance for the metals is perfect for this type and there was nothing found in the wear that would suggest any problems."
Now I could be wrong and perhaps the guy with a spreadsheet would like to comment but it seems that when people use OW oils that generally they get good results. There will always be exceptions to the rule but Im noticing patterns starting to develop.
Those patterns are consistant with what Im reading from Haas and when you add up the numbers you can start getting a feel for the bottom line and that is that OW oils seem to be pretty good at protecting cars.
I think even the Elves would agree though they can get angry when their secrets escape the forest.
Happy Motoring All,
Bugshu
The Elves have no "issues" with your analysis or your conclusions...the only thing they were musing out loud as they read your post was, "Too bad that 95% of the world's drivers, even the knowledgeable ones," can't seem to come to grips that a 0W does work in applications for which it is intended, in fact, work very well, and in fact of fact, startup wear is oh so important and at start up a 0W absolutely SHINES." TNX Bugshu for your insights...Happy Holiday!quote:
Originally posted by Bugshu:
I think even the Elves would agree though they can get angry when their secrets escape the forest.
Happy Motoring All,
Bugshu
Isn't the Mobil DC+ 7500 mile oil also a blend of Grp III plus PAO? And it sells for half of what PP does? Shoot, if I'm gonna pay more than $4.50 a quart, I'll get M1 and have a real deal synthetic in my motor. No offense to Pennz, but it seems to me that PP is overpriced for what you get, compared to Mobil's offerings.
Especally since the HPFS (High Performance File System) that was introduced in O/S2 Warp 3 is the same as NTFS, just with a different name.
As a matter of fact, I'd rather be operating O/S2. It's stability was better 10 years ago than NT and ME. I did crash O/S2 once, by opening 15 DOS boxes, on 4 MB of ram.
As for the M$ supporters out there, why does my bank run O/S 2, when they could be using a "up to date" Operating System?
I totally agree.
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