Pennzoil Platinum HM 5W30 VOA
- Thread starter himemsys
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They must be doing the same things at Quaker State. The PDS for the 10w40 all mileage has a 100c visc. of 15.7 but the MSDS has it at 13.9.
It’s usually the opposite in most industries no? The larger scale your operations the fancier your equipment and controls are. I’m not familiar at all with blending but just seemed like the opposite you see with things like alcohol, cosmetics, pharma, etc.
What I'm most surprised by is that amount of variance is deemed acceptable. It suggests that it's possible to buy bottles from different batches and have one bottle be 11.4 while another is 9.6. Or does the variation go up to ~12.4 too?
In some industries, yes, but not this one. The major brands are focused on speed and cost of production. Wide tolerances are accepted to allow for faster and cheaper production, and outlier specs are masked by blending huge batches at a time. This is unlike alcohol, cosmetics, and pharmaceuticals.
With alcohol, you can taste variances between batches so careful attention is given to ensuring the formula is consistent batch to batch so people remain loyal to their brand. Plus, it only gets better with age in an oak barrel. Cosmetics, same thing. Variances in quality and specifications is not good when seeking foundations that match one's skin complexion. It has to be very consistent. Pharmaceuticals... could you imagine if a 10 mg pill could vary between 8 and 13 mg? It has to be precise.
With engine oil, nobody is going to notice the difference if an oil varies by 2-3 cSt. You can't smell or taste the difference, other's won't recognize the difference for you, and API gives them a standard that's way down in the toilet so there's no incentive to be precise. When it comes to alcohol and cosmetics, people are much more brand loyal. They find what they like, what suits them best, and stick to it. With engine oil, the vast majority of the public rolls through Walmart lube center, Jiffy Lube, or any other quick lube place or dealership and couldn't tell you what brand they have in their engine. The ones who do shop the shelf usually can't tell you the difference between brands and just shop by price. Most don't even know what API is or that it even exists. It's why Rotella, Super Tech, and Kirkland are so popular. The major brands know this, very well, and thus speed and cost of production takes center stage to be competitive with the other brands on the shelf price wise.
They often don't take the time to precisely measure each and every component of each batch as that takes time. They blend by volume, rather than weight, because it's much faster, and the variances are washed out over huge batches. They may blend 30,000 gallons of 0W-20 and then have 5W-30 lined up right after it, and some residual 4 cSt base oil from the 20 grade is left in the lines. You may have the first several gallons of the 5W-30 be in 20 grade range because the transition isn't a clear cut between them. That's when you get a result like what's seen in the OP with a KV100 that's out of range and elements below minimums. Stopping production to properly flush the system, or running dedicated tanks, is cost prohibitive.
A lot of what makes the smaller specialty oil brands better is their attention to the fine details. At HPL, for example, everything is blended by weight down to fractions of an ounce on an 8,000 gallon tank. Their scales are so precise that even a breeze off the ceiling fan will throw off the reading. Their blending equipment has less variance than the $1.5 million worth of lab equipment, it's that precise. They have dedicated tanks to specific blends so there's not cross interference. Additives are slowly and carefully introduced one at a time into the base oils, in cycling pumps, and allowed time to fully emulsify into the oil before adding the next one. This takes much longer, but you get much more accurate blends and more consistent batch to batch.
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In my humble opinion, employing such a titration method for contemporary PCMO appears rather absurd. While I comprehend its adoption for swift field tests employing safer reagents like hydrochloric acid, Shell originally put it forth for marine vessels (UOAs, onboard labs) dealing with copious amounts of "chalk" and highly alkaline (overbased) reagents. Their unwavering commitment to this approach is commendable.
Nevertheless, within the realm of PCMOs, this analysis proves utterly rubbishing, It is even rubbish for used oil analyses. The modern fuel contains minute traces of sulfur, raising doubts about D4739 necessity. Moreover, the technique of D4739 itself feels antiquated and rudimentary. Shell's D4739 proposition in 1987 aimed to streamline processes and cut costs, best work with heavy diesel soot.
Update: I sent a sample from the same bottle to Oil Analyzers. While most of the spectral results were in line with Blackstone's, the viscosity came back in grade and very close the the batch viscosity. OA's turnaround time was also very fast. Something like 6 days from the time I mailed the sample til I got the results. I intentionally left the brand and grade off of the sample to keep it a blind test. Still low moly, phosphorus below the 600 minimum, and nearly identical TBN.
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Does this mean I should stop using Pennzoil? Or do XOM and BP have similar loose tolerances anyway.
No, just don't use B/S Labs. They're not that good.
You're okay with Pennzoil selling you oil that is 1.7 cSt thinner than what they spec on their PDS?
Wouldn't concern me but I wouldn't be thrilled about it either. The VOAs/UOAs I've seen over the years seem pretty consistent. The only thing that stands out to me is B/S Labs, which is not that consistent.
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Considering that ~90% of the UOAs and VOAs I've seen on here ARE from B/S Labs, I can't see how you can conclude that the other ~10% are consistent when they're so few and far between.
The additive levels appear to be the same within B/S labs VOAs. At least from what I've seen.
What differences are we talking about here?
Maybe I'm not paying close enough attention. I just don't recall seeing any major differences.
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I think we're on different wavelengths here. lol
You said:
Consistency requires a lot of data. Since almost all the reports here are Blackstone, and very few are from other companies, it's hard to say that the other companies are more consistent. I believe if you picked any other oil analysis company and gave them the volume that Blackstone has, then you'd be more conscious of inconsistencies of that other company. Let's just say Oil Analyzers had the volume of B/S and B/S had the volume of OA. You'd see more reports and more opportunities for inconsistencies in OA. That was my point.
Gotcha.
I just don't think there is any large variances in quality control. All of the VOA's I've seen no matter what company are in grade and contain the standard additive levels we see consistently from Moly, ZDP, Boron etc. It's a non-issue really.
Most people that spend enough time on here could tell you how much moly/boron etc. of most of the common oils we see here simply because it's always around the same.
I just don't think there is any large variances in quality control. All of the VOA's I've seen no matter what company are in grade and contain the standard additive levels we see consistently from Moly, ZDP, Boron etc. It's a non-issue really.
Most people that spend enough time on here could tell you how much moly/boron etc. of most of the common oils we see here simply because it's always around the same.
Pennzoil used to be my favorite brand.
Perhaps their quality control needs a lot of improvement, or they are intentionally cutting costs by reducing the additive package.
But either way, in my mind, I've lost trust in their company. The anemic response from their customer service is another worrying concern.
Unfortunately I bought quite a few of the 5 quart jugs of the Pennzoil Platinum High mileage Full Synthetic 5W-30 at the Tractor Supply clearance sale for $9.49. So in my stach, I plan to use those Pennzoil 5 quart jugs up first and then after that I'll put Pennzoil on my permanent forever "Do Not Buy" list.
Perhaps their quality control needs a lot of improvement, or they are intentionally cutting costs by reducing the additive package.
But either way, in my mind, I've lost trust in their company. The anemic response from their customer service is another worrying concern.
Unfortunately I bought quite a few of the 5 quart jugs of the Pennzoil Platinum High mileage Full Synthetic 5W-30 at the Tractor Supply clearance sale for $9.49. So in my stach, I plan to use those Pennzoil 5 quart jugs up first and then after that I'll put Pennzoil on my permanent forever "Do Not Buy" list.
I think you need to understand that not all additives are metallic.
Yeah, SOPUS makes some great oils like Rotella and Formula Shell and WS oils. I’m not impressed with this HM in 5w30. The PPHM 5w20 I got clearance price is in friends vehicles, no issues reported. I think quality control is severely lacking. Hell, the VOA’s of Safety Kleen oil never show these issues.
