Paul Krugman - The Great Unravelling
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I'm reading "Old Glory: An American Voyage" by Jonathan Raban (BTW, I'm a boating nut!)quote:
Originally posted by buster:
Pablo, it's good to read things from your oposite point of view. My brother in-law from Texas was just here this past week. Here were the books he has just read: Treason by Ann Coulter, some other book by Ann Coulter, Bias by Goldberg, Sean Hannity - winning the war of Liberty over Liberalism. How can anyone be fair about an arguement without exploring the other side? He is now going to read books of the Left and from that maybe his views will change, maybe they won't. It's good to stay open minded on any issue.
Guess I should find a different topic to read on our great forum here...
Well, if you listen to ABC, NBC, CBS, or CNN you have the other sidequote:
Originally posted by buster:
Pablo, it's good to read things from your oposite point of view. My brother in-law from Texas was just here this past week. Here were the books he has just read: Treason by Ann Coulter, some other book by Ann Coulter, Bias by Goldberg, Sean Hannity - winning the war of Liberty over Liberalism. How can anyone be fair about an arguement without exploring the other side? He is now going to read books of the Left and from that maybe his views will change, maybe they won't. It's good to stay open minded on any issue.
quote:
Originally posted by Al:
Originally posted by wulimaster:
[qb]Originally posted by keith:
[qb] 3 social classes.
The controlling class (call them ruling class, not to be confused with upper class which is based on net worth, there will be no upper class)
The police/military class (to keep the labor class in check domestically/outside our borders)
The labor class to work the farms, mines, and transportation sectors, and a service sector to cater to those working in the other sectors and the ruling class .
There will be no intellectual class as that will be offshored and isolated from the police and labor class so as to not affect their creativity and hence their productivity.
As far as the "intellectual class" The ones I am thinking of appear in the above 3 classes. I would consider mysef an intellectual bc I am a graduate engineer. But I feel I would fit in the last class (Working Class) as opposed to perhaps a more classic "intellectual" who would perhaps (to stereotype a bit) be someone from a West School who spends more time demonstrating gainst the "Evil Republican Administration" instead of going to class.
So in the the "Intellectual class fits almost anywhere.
I guess-I'm confused abour your George Orwell World of tomorrow. Why would you think that an Engineer could not write poetry, or be a cheff, or do or be anything that you are attributing to an intellectual? Sounds like you are assuming that an engineer can't be creative.
I suppose somehow you have a "vision" of this coming world where certain classes may or may not be able to function or be relavant in this world??
Engineers are by and large extremely intelligent and will fit into any class they need to to survive in this new world. There will be of course exceptions. BTW I really don't consider myself very intelligent-but I was always amazed by the intellectual level of my engineering friends.
The National Review has a contributor, Donald Luskin, who takes Krugman to task on a regular and frequent basis. He calls himself the Krugman Truth Squad. There is little of Krugmans' arguments that Luskin does not rather successfully dismantle on a systematic basis. Here's a link to the latest installment, from todays NRO (National Review Online) http://www.nationalreview.com/nrof_luskin/truthsquad200401061232.asp
edit: just hit GSV's link. Apparently he reads NRO as well.
[ January 06, 2004, 02:23 PM: Message edited by: doyall ]
edit: just hit GSV's link. Apparently he reads NRO as well.
[ January 06, 2004, 02:23 PM: Message edited by: doyall ]
"Corporate welfare" is a much overused code word. Corporate taxes come from - the owners of the company or its suppliers or its customers. The corporate tax is ultimately just another tax on citizens. The lower 50% of income earners already pay zero federal income tax or negative tax (EITC). Exactly how much more social welfare would you like? 75%? Needless to say, any talk of tax cuts is difficult when half the earners don't contribute.
It does bother me though that some corporations go off the tracks and run up Enron sized debacles. The owners of these public corporations, usually conglomerates of insurance companies and mutual fund investors, are asleep at the wheel.
Keith.
GSV, that link was absolutely priceless! I couldn’t agree with Don Luskin any more!
Luskin sums up Krugman pretty well:
“The nervous, stammering, shifty-eyed, twitching, ill-tailored, gray homunculus …”
The guy really seemed a lot like Woody Allen talking about sex. As uncomfortable as it was for him, it was even harder for the audience to watch without wincing or feeling queasy.
It wasn’t just the fact that Paul isn’t a stellar television performer, it’s just that you can’t defend socialism economics with a straight face. It’s never worked no matter how these pointy-headed liberal types wished it would. And when you try to actually defend it in public … it, um … well, it ain’t pretty.
And the best part of that link is it had another link to this place:
http://www.thoseshirts.com/
--- Bror Jace
Luskin sums up Krugman pretty well:
“The nervous, stammering, shifty-eyed, twitching, ill-tailored, gray homunculus …”
The guy really seemed a lot like Woody Allen talking about sex. As uncomfortable as it was for him, it was even harder for the audience to watch without wincing or feeling queasy.
It wasn’t just the fact that Paul isn’t a stellar television performer, it’s just that you can’t defend socialism economics with a straight face. It’s never worked no matter how these pointy-headed liberal types wished it would. And when you try to actually defend it in public … it, um … well, it ain’t pretty.
And the best part of that link is it had another link to this place:
http://www.thoseshirts.com/
--- Bror Jace
let me re-phrase the corporate welfare statement.
1. for all the complaining about how much money goes into social programs, that amount pales in comparison to the pork that is given to corporations in tax breaks and subsidy money.
2. corporations are not citizens, even though at this point they seem to have more power than citizens.
3. post ww2, corporate taxes made up about 50% of the tax base in this country. now they are around 25%.
4. i've worked for at least two companies that had substantial operating profits, yet managed to write off the same inventory for years to show a loss.
5. many corporations now re-incorporate off-shore as to avoid paying any tax at all (certain divisions of haliburton for instance).
6. federal, state and local governments have outsourced operations overseas or out-of-state, sending our tax dollars away.
7. i don't mind paying my fair share of taxes, but when the money goes to drug companies that will gouge me later on i get a little tired of it.
1. for all the complaining about how much money goes into social programs, that amount pales in comparison to the pork that is given to corporations in tax breaks and subsidy money.
2. corporations are not citizens, even though at this point they seem to have more power than citizens.
3. post ww2, corporate taxes made up about 50% of the tax base in this country. now they are around 25%.
4. i've worked for at least two companies that had substantial operating profits, yet managed to write off the same inventory for years to show a loss.
5. many corporations now re-incorporate off-shore as to avoid paying any tax at all (certain divisions of haliburton for instance).
6. federal, state and local governments have outsourced operations overseas or out-of-state, sending our tax dollars away.
7. i don't mind paying my fair share of taxes, but when the money goes to drug companies that will gouge me later on i get a little tired of it.
well, timothy mcvie was certainly not "undocumented." nor was the unabomber. nor the "army of god." many of the 9/11 terrorists were in the country legally (and several had overstayed their visas).
these terror alerts are simply to keep people scared, so that when nothing happens they can feel like they were protected. in the mean time the fbi has been given the power to seize your financial and personal information without any type of probable cause or judicial oversight.
http://www.wired.com/news/privacy/0,1848,61792,00.html?tw=wn_tophead_1
as far as the whole liberal/conservative thing goes, if you say conservatives are for small government, then you'd better find someone other than republicans to vote for. try libertarian.
while i'm quite liberal, i'm also very capitalist as well. i do believe that the government can prevent many abuses if they chose to do so. this country has moved from being on the social welfare end of the spectrum to the corporate welfare end. capitalism has replaced democracy as far as what people think makes this country great.
these terror alerts are simply to keep people scared, so that when nothing happens they can feel like they were protected. in the mean time the fbi has been given the power to seize your financial and personal information without any type of probable cause or judicial oversight.
http://www.wired.com/news/privacy/0,1848,61792,00.html?tw=wn_tophead_1
as far as the whole liberal/conservative thing goes, if you say conservatives are for small government, then you'd better find someone other than republicans to vote for. try libertarian.
while i'm quite liberal, i'm also very capitalist as well. i do believe that the government can prevent many abuses if they chose to do so. this country has moved from being on the social welfare end of the spectrum to the corporate welfare end. capitalism has replaced democracy as far as what people think makes this country great.
quote:
Originally posted by Al:
The other thing that really torques me is the constant Terror warnings that we are subjected to. Has it occurred to anyone that if we immediately deported all "illegals" and "undocumented" (liberal term. -
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