Pat Goss questioned on oil.

[Alan]

Yesterday on his local(DC Metro area)radio show a couple callers asked about synthetic and dino oil.

His answers were kinda blanket statements if you ask me.

He states one of the major advantages of synthetic oil is it's roughly 700 times stronger then dino in shear strength/stability(ability to stay in the bearings under extreme pressure he was saying).

I've heard him mention these number(700 times more shear strength)a bunch of times but is it true?

He also stated less engine wear on a cold start due to synthetics being more "slippier".Able to move throught the engine more easily.Less wear at normal operating temperature due to easier flow with a synthetic also.

The guy asked if it mattered what brand of snythetic he used,response was something like "no,any one of the major brands is fine".

Another guy called in asking about upping to a 10W40 over a 10W30 due to a slight consumption over a 5K OCI(car had over 270K with M1).He answer basically said that he was sacrificing flow to all the internals over a small oil consumption that was normal in new motors.

What say you guys?

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

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Originally posted by Alan:
What say you guys?

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Pat Goss is a boob when it comes to motor oil. His answers reflect age old myths about synthetics that have a shadow of truth in them but are by no means an accurate explanation of why synthetics are better than conventional oils.

 

[buster]

quote:

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Pat Goss is a boob when it comes to motor oil. His answers reflect age old myths about synthetics that have a shadow of truth in them but are by no means an accurate explanation of why synthetics are better than conventional oils.

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I agree and I'd add most mechanics to the list of people that don't have a clue about oil.

 

[Dr. T]

I agree too...especially TV mechanics...all you'll get is a neutral-they-heard-it-from-somewhere type of answer.

 

[Pablo]

These guys are entertainers at best, advertisers as can be expected, and wrong 90% of the time.

IOW, they are about the same as the web, but don't waste your time quite as much

(because you can actually work with the radio on)

yeah I always love the "neutral dodge"....the local eediots on Bellingham 790AM KGMI say syns for everything but the engine are good and change the oil every 3000 miles or less....so maybe they aren't so wrong, but then they wax poetically for the advertiser (additive flavor of the month) paying the bill. Free enterprise and buyer beware!

 

[ZR2RANDO]

Maybe it was new to the caller???

sounds like the radio guy is just filling in the hour slot to me...doesn't really listen, just talks...

 

[quick_16]

So out of all that Goss bashing

I did not see one expert comment on the technical side of the discussion.

I'm truly a stupid azz about oil but hanging here with you experts I hope to learn more.

So would one of you please comment on the 700 times better on shear??? or not. Is that and variable that is measured in a UOA or VOA that can be purchased?

 

[westex39]

I don't know for sure, but I seriously doubt 700 times the shear strength. I've seen several wear tests comparing synthetics to dino oils. None have ever been 700 times better.
You can't go wrong using synthetics. Even if they are only ten times better. You'll probably never wear out the component you use them in under normal usage.

JMHO,

regards,

westex

 

[yannis]

700 times better????????? and he is an expert?????

What Bulls*** is that?
Maybe , i say maybe 1,5 times better when we are talking about PAO or 5 times better if it is ester
700 times better

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

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Originally posted by quick_16:
So out of all that Goss bashing

I did not see one expert comment on the technical side of the discussion.

I'm truly a stupid azz about oil but hanging here with you experts I hope to learn more.

So would one of you please comment on the 700 times better on shear??? or not. Is that and variable that is measured in a UOA or VOA that can be purchased?

---

It's hard to comment on something when you're unsure of what he's talking about. If by "shear" he means HT/HS as measured using the standard tests, then he's full of heavy bunker oil. If you compare the HT/HS numbers of Mobil 1 10w30 and regular Pennzoil 10w30 you'll see that they are virtually identical.

There are only TWO distinct advantages to running a synthetic oil in a well-maintained and mechanically sound engine: (1) Extended drains (anything over 3000 miles under "severe" driving conditions, or anything over 7500 miles under "ideal" driving conditions); and (2) for turbocharged applications. That's it. Anything else is marketing BS, hype, or old wives' tales.

 

[quick_16]

" If you compare the HT/HS numbers of Mobil 1 10w30 and regular Pennzoil 10w30 you'll see that they are virtually identical.

There are only TWO distinct advantages to running a synthetic oil in a well-maintained and mechanically sound engine: (1) Extended drains (anything over 3000 miles under "severe" driving conditions, or anything over 7500 miles under "ideal" driving conditions); and (2) for turbocharged applications. That's it. Anything else is marketing BS, hype, or old wives' tales. "

G-man-II, Thanks that seems to answer one or two myths I have heard often. I was told by a few that for a racing application the synthetic oils where measurable better that good Dino. I was told they will make the engine put out maybe 1% more power and be more also help reliability because of it's "supposable" better tolerance in a compressed state of which I interpret as the process variable shear. I always thought shear was more to do with true viscosity of the oil as it relates to bearing clearence....

 

[buster]

Shear strength is just one aspect though. We seem to focus on HT/HS, which is important, but there are other very important things about synthetics like deposit control, hot temperature protection and low temp. protection.

 

[Dr. T]

The only figure I've ever heard (The motor oil bible) is that synth's are 5x more resistant to shear than dino...hence the thought that you can run a thinner synth. in an engine that calls for a thicker conv..

I think there is some merit to this as in a synth. all molecules are similar (the same size) whereas in a conv. there are molecules of many different sizes leading to the squeezing-out of the less-resistant ones...(not sure if it would equate to 5x though)

 

[MolaKule]

A full synthetic BASE oil has 5 times the film pressure strength of dino and and approx. 3 times the SHear resistance of dino.

Additives will modify those numbers.

[ February 16, 2004, 03:36 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]

 

[moribundman]

I got nothing against Pat Goss, apart from a deep resentment towards many of things he's said in the past (

). I would think he meant to say that synthetic oil was 700% more shear stable stan dino oil. That's 7 times better and more in line with facts that 700 times better. Math am hard. Me go now bang head on wall.

 

[Alan]

I know Pat Goss comes across a a BG product pimp because they sponser his show but he does know a buttload about cars.

But still does a real synthetic have 700 times the shear strength on a dino?

I say no but i'm no expert,what do the guru's say?

 

[haley10]

Makes me remember Andy Granatelli "hawking" STP when I was a teenager. I see DR.'s advertizing miracle drugs all the time on TV that don't work. People have faith in this stuff, but they are just paid sponsors, entertainers, etc. Means nothing.

Pat Goss sells a lot of needless transmission flushes around here and I feel it's useless for many auto's to be running to a transmission flush center every 30K or less.

 

[Spector]

"Another guy called in asking about upping to a 10W40 over a 10W30 due to a slight consumption over a 5K OCI(car had over 270K with M1).He answer basically said that he was sacrificing flow to all the internals over a small oil consumption that was normal in new motors."

New motor, it has 270K.

 

[javacontour]

quote:

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Originally posted by Spector:
"Another guy called in asking about upping to a 10W40 over a 10W30 due to a slight consumption over a 5K OCI(car had over 270K with M1).He answer basically said that he was sacrificing flow to all the internals over a small oil consumption that was normal in new motors."

New motor, it has 270K.

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I'm not sure you get the subtle message.

This is what I think he was saying.

Why are you worried about this type of consumption in an engine with 270K miles, when there are brand new engines that exhibit the same level of consumption? Keep using what the carmaker recommends.

If you are not the expert, that's the best recommendation to make, keep doing what's worked.

TB

 

[HondaRD]

Heh, I remember listening and watching that guy on TV, Motorweek was the name of it I think. I agree with the general consensus about our friend Pat Goss. While I don't think he is a very technical guy when it comes to cars or specific aspects of it like engine oil, I think it is important to keep in mind that most of his listening audience does not even know what the "W" means on a bottle of oil.
I wish there was a show for people who already have a pretty good knowledge about cars. You know where there would be a segment where they would talk about oil filter construction and would cut a few open. Then talk about the technical aspects of what makes a good engine oil...You know stuff that that.....Wouldn't that me cool or what.