Park Avenues tires are cupped

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Nebraskan

Nebraskan

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Jul 17, 2006
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614
Location
SW Michigan, near Fennville
I recently bought a used 1996 Buick Park Avenue with about 147,000 miles on it. Great shape in body, engine, interior and care. The former owner worked for GM down in Kalamazoo, MI for quite a number of years. He bought the Park Avenue at about 78,000 miles and sold it to me at 147,000.

He had tires put on at Sam's Club. All 4 tires installed, balanced etc on July 17, 2003 at 120,681 miles. So, he had put 26,319 miles on the tires before I got the car.

The tires have a cupping on the tire. I just had the car into a mechanic shop for brake flushing and had them look at : Shocks, Ball Joints, Tie Rod Ends. All looked good to them. They thought might be either out of balance many miles back, or some slight mis-alignment on the rear tires/axle. Tires are BF Goodrich Advnatage Plus P205/70R15 tires. All four.

Any ideas?
Perhaps some new Douglas tires at Wal-Mart?
grin.gif
 
Actually found something out on the web about sipes. That sipes that run longitudially are more prone to cupping than those tires that run horizontal to the tire. Intersting.
 
I've got a set of these on my 2000 LeSabre in the P215/70R15 size.

Michelin HydroEdge
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[ August 09, 2006, 12:47 AM: Message edited by: Clyde65 ]
 
You'll need to find out why these tires are cupping before you buy new tires.
Do your shocks have 147k on them? How did the mechanic test them? Does the cupping appear as on this web page?
 
Cupping most likely caused by worn shocks/struts.

Most mechanics overlooked the proper way to test shocks/struts with the rather traditional(yet out of date sometimes, esp. with modern rather lightweight/stiffer suspension cars) "jounce" method.

Knowing that shocks/struts are wear-n-tear items, I would not hesitate to replace them all 4 given the car's mileage (and GM OE shocks too).
 
Lack of rotation can make cupping worse. Don't buy Douglas tires for that poor car.
frown.gif
They are crappy rubber, don't have full depth sipes and don't last long. Get the Viva 2 or Viva touring they are the best tires you can get at Wal-mart.
 
quote:
Originally posted by Quest:
Cupping most likely caused by worn shocks/struts.

Most mechanics overlooked the proper way to test shocks/struts with the rather traditional(yet out of date sometimes, esp. with modern rather lightweight/stiffer suspension cars) "jounce" method.

Knowing that shocks/struts are wear-n-tear items, I would not hesitate to replace them all 4 given the car's mileage (and GM OE shocks too).
Click to expand...
How is the preferred method to check the shocks? I've pushed down on the car, several times and when I let go it comes back up and then immediately levels. Both front and back.

Being from Nebraska, we are of the old school of thought, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!". Even though they have 147,000 miles on the shocks, that does not mean they are the culprits ie worn out.

Saw the link on the tire wear. It's more like the last statement about the cupping wear. If you look at the back tire, the tread "lug" has more rubber in the direction of roation, than the trailing edge. So, it goes like a "ridge" gradually going down, then the gap of the tread lug and the next ridge being about the height of the leading edge of the first ridge, then the trailing down to the gap, then the next ridge high in front like the other examples, and so on.
 
The two times I've bought a car with cupped tires - I replaced them (the tires alone), and never had an issue again. One was a Dodge Avenger with 21k miles (totalled at 75k), and the other was a Saturn with 116k (still on the road, 151k).
Don't know why they cupped in the first place, but my replacement's never did.
 
quote:
Originally posted by Nebraskan:
...If you look at the back tire, the tread "lug" has more rubber in the direction of roation, than the trailing edge. So, it goes like a "ridge" gradually going down, then the gap of the tread lug and the next ridge being about the height of the leading edge of the first ridge, then the trailing down to the gap, then the next ridge high in front like the other examples, and so on.
Click to expand...
This sounds more like heel and toe wear, which isn't addressed the link. Some Heel and Toe is expected, but this also may point to an alignment problem - not to mention insufficient rotation.

But be careful - while "cupping" is caused by shocks / struts, the term "cupping" has been generalized (incorrectly!) to include irregular wear and diagonal wear. These are caused by misalignment and aggravated by insufficient inflation pressure and insufficient rotation practices.
 
CapriRacer may have hit it. Talked with John at the body shop today and he said most front wheel drive vehicles that have cupping on the rear tire or unusual wear is from non-rotation. He said the rear tires are "light" in that they don't have the heavy engine holding the rear down as tight, and have a tendency to "bounce" slightly. This starts the wear and it just becomes more agravated from there. Then the unbalance begins to add because of the uneaven wear of the tire. So it becomes both the light bouncing affect plus the out of balance effect to continue the situation. Like Virtuoso from Bellevue said, perhaps just changing the tires and being faithful to roations will help. *I grew up in NW Nebraska, by Crawford.*
 
Interesting article here after doing a quick search on "heel and toe" http://autos.yahoo.com/maintain/repairqa/tires_wheels/ques094_2.html

Lat paragraph really tells it more like what I have. Rear tires being the worst. Probably never rotated in the 26,000 miles. AND it also mentions that some brands and styles are more quirky to this phenomenon than others. Also see:
https://www-auth.cs.wisc.edu/lists/vfr/2000-August/msg02621.shtml as a particular brand of tire is singled out as causing this phenomenon more than others.
 
Strange..I'd never heard about or experienced this. My mom's Accord wore the front tires only, where the rears looked like new even after 20,000 miles of non-rotation. I'm assuming the rear must have been in perfect alignment, as they appeared to have just followed along, supporting the rear of the car with no apparent wear.

Isn't cupping cause by excessive toe in or out?
 
I had a 1995 Park Ave till 2001 and had to replace the struts on it at 80,000 miles. If yours are original, they need to be replaced. Worn struts will cause tire wear. I replaced the OEM Goodyear tires at 75,000 miles with Eagle GT+4's.

btw-I checked around for prices and found the Buick dealer had the better deal at the time (1999). Plus he installed the performance F41 suspension struts on all 4 for less then $750 whereas most other place were over $1000 for Monroe brand.

Made a huge difference in the ride, before it was riding like a big boat on a wavy sea, kind of up and down but after it rode great, like it was on rails. The optional performance suspension struts were worth the few $$ more.

btw--Before I replaced the struts I had it checked by 2 different suspension experts and both told me the struts were week.

[ August 09, 2006, 09:05 PM: Message edited by: Mike ]
 
147K struts are weak! You'll never know how bad till you replace them and see how it should drive.

If tires still have decent tread depth, rotate. if not replace with about anything but Douglas.

Bob
 
Mike, I'd have to plunk in your co-ordinates on my Garmin GPS to see how far you were from me at Fennville, MI
smile.gif


I'm not into this car at very much, only paid 1500 for it to begin with. It would be good if I do have it checked by suspension experts. Not all stuts wear out at the same time, or on the same model, given different drivers and driving conditions.
 
I was thinking about Douglas Touring for $66.25 per tire, actually. What's wrong with Douglas?

What about if I move them around from left to right? Move the left tire to the right side Front and vice-a-versa.?? Make 'em run the opposite direction for a while!! Or, get new ones, save these for winter. Should make great snow tires being all rough like this! LOL
 
Sold Kelly Springfield (Goodyear) built tires for years. Each private label KS builds is built to label owner's specs. Douglas is owned by WM. From years experience they're slightly tougher than dishrags!
grin.gif



Probably sticking my D--- in a hornets nest here but,,,,Changing sides will cause no problems, and if tires are still good should give several K more miles. Swap sides with rears, move to front. Move fronts straight back.

Bob
 
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