PAO's in recent Quaker State data sheets

[novadude]

Found this interesting news blurb on www.rdmag.com.

"Low Cost Synthetic Oil
Demand for high-performance synthetic oils and lubricants is strong, but their cost is high. That may change with a new, simpler way to make a polyalpha olefin substitute (PAO), a key ingredient in synthetic oils. Developers W.J. Heilman, I-Ching Chiu, and Wei Song of Pennzoil-Quaker State Co., The Woodlands, Texas, and consultant James Chien of Amherst Polymer Technology, Amherst, Mass., say a single-site catalyst to convert low-cost ethylene and propylene into a liquid polymer is the key to their process. Currently, PAO production begins with oligomerization of decene-1, which is expensive and in limited supply. The new process, however, uses monomers that are readily available and cost one-third that of decene-1. Furthermore, the process has the capability of manufacturing products with an unlimited viscosity range.

PENNSYN products are made directly in one step using single-site polymerization catalysts which produce polymer molecules that are all identical, without isomerization and where the molecular structure can be controlled."

Maybe this is why QS syns are no longer Group III?

 

[mark pruett]

Sure... but why would they?

It's more likely they'll keep the "synthetic" type oils at a similar price to what they are now, and just make more on each bottle.

Dropping the price would give an impression of lesser quality, and therefore they'd essentially drive customers to other oils like Mobil 1, etc...

 

[Stooge]

Many of these "new" base oil production processes are on the books for many oil companies. Alot of the R&D is done off-shore now, so news back to the states is typically slow.

 

[Motorbike]

It's probably the long awaited " EOP " Ethylene Alfa-Olefin Polymer that will be in the newer Group6 category .

Here's a couple of previous threads on it and the newest classification .

http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=4;t=000115

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=4;t=000219

[ February 02, 2004, 02:17 PM: Message edited by: Motorbike ]

 

[Johnny]

Well fellows, I sure ain't going to try and blow smoke up your skirts "as they say". I don't have a clue. I talk to one tech and he says our synthetics are all Group III, I talk to another and he says we are slowly introducing the EOP product. So I called the head of the technical department and he tells me they do not share that information. So my self and about 300 other employees are trying to find out the answer. Kind of hard to sell your product when you don't even know what the base stock is. When and if I find out I will post it on this site. I am

 

[Jay]

I wonder how the price of EOP compares to group III. If it's more expensive than group III why would anyone use it?

 

[G-MAN]

If you'll note, the QS MSDS sheets state 1-decene, which this new base oil isn't.

Here is a Shell press release about this new synthetic oil. (Remember, Shell now owns Pennzoil.) I've sent Johnny a PM to ask if he can tell us more about this new base oil.

 

[buster]

This is very interesting. Could be huge for the industry if they can find a way to make a PAO cheaper. You could then add other "good stuff" to the oil and still sell it at the same price. ExxonMobil better watch out.

 

[novadude]

If all Shell / Pennzoil / QS syn products are group III (or maybe EOP), why do the QS MSDS sheets indicate PAO?

 

[Motorbike]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Johnny:

When and if I find out I will post it on this site.

---

Thanks Johnny , until then I'll hazard a guess that the EOP is not currently used in the PCMO line based on the MSDS . I would imagine those who make the MSDS sheets are absolute when they put those CAS numbers down given the reason for MSDS sheets in the first place .

If it costs 35% less to make the EOP base oil like reported we could see some really neat stuff from Shell in the close future . I would not doubt to see Castrol purchase and use that basestock along with a host of others . Blended Shell XHVI and PAO works very well and can be sold for 5 bucks a quart or less . I would assume XHVI and EOP could even be sold for less than that .

 

[Motorbike]

quote:

---

Originally posted by G-Man II:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Motorbike:
Blended Shell XHVI and PAO works very well and can be sold for 5 bucks a quart or less . I would assume XHVI and EOP could even be sold for less than that .

---

The Group III that Pennzoil uses is NOT Shell XHVI. There is currently only one oil sold in the US at retail that uses XHVI and that's Rotella T Synthetic.

XHVI, being a wax isomerate, is more costly to produce than coventional hydrocracked Group III.

---

I did not mention that Pennzoil used the Shell Slax Wax basestock at this time. At least one of the Castrol's does though and it's in the USA and sold at retail

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Motorbike:
I did not mention that Pennzoil used the Shell Slax Wax basestock at this time. At least one of the Castrol's does though and it's in the USA and sold at retail

---

Since the topic of this thread is Pennzoil/QS, I was just trying to clarify something.

BTW, Castrol no longer uses XHVI in domestic Syntec.

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Motorbike:
Blended Shell XHVI and PAO works very well and can be sold for 5 bucks a quart or less . I would assume XHVI and EOP could even be sold for less than that .

---

The Group III that Pennzoil uses is NOT Shell XHVI. There is currently only one oil sold in the US at retail that uses XHVI and that's Rotella T Synthetic.

XHVI, being a wax isomerate, is more costly to produce than coventional hydrocracked Group III.