Outstanding Amsoil results!!!

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my car averages about 25 - 27 mpg, depending on temperature and driving conditions. this is based on burning at least 3/4 tank of fuel.

if i did eye-ball math, my odometer shows typically 120 miles at 1/4 tank, or 3.975 gallons (15.9 gallon tank).

this would be gas mileage of 30.19 mpg.

(agreeing with earlier posts)

the only way to calculate mileage is odometer/gas meter. even those in-vehicle computers that calculate your mileage are full of it.
 
Ahhh *light comes on* I understand now why you brought up the 1st 1/4 tank mileage point. I may be seeing 15.9 but when I do a full tank (which is a more realistic reading) it will be lower and more accurate to the way I drive.

Pablo, sorry bout that....kinda slipped my mind.

And as for changing out the tranny and diff fluids.....haven't gotten that far yet. Actually, it comes with synth from the factory in the diffs. I'm currently at mile 300 of an Auto-RX treatment on the tranny and transfer case. Once I get those done I'm hoping to see more gains.

Of course, I don't expect much in a beast this big!

Mikie
 
Have you considered evaporation as a very likely cause of the reduction in MPG when you empty the entire tank? I beleive this is the most likely cause.

First of all, everyone who is mentioning the inaccuracy of the gauge is missing a critical point. It doesn't matter. What we care about here is the miles:gallons ratio. That is all that matters. You are using the same odometer & pumps that are likely VERY accurate...regardless, the error will average out since you have the same error in every mile & every fill up. For this purpose, we can assume that the fuel gauge & pump are perfect.

Now, on evaporation...consider the environment your gas is in. Keep in mind that gasoline:

Fuel injected vehicles have a "loop" type fuel system...basically fuel is constantly flowing to the engine, through the fuel pressure regulator, & back to the tank. A VERY small amount flows through the injectors. So basically you are constantly pumping gas up to the engine, then draining it back in the tank. The problem is this heats the gas up significantly.

Also, as you probably know, gasoline evaporates, quickly, much more quickly than water. Its boiling point is about 150*F-160*F. Pour 1oz of gasoline on a peice of black tin in direct sunlight...also pour 1oz of water on the same peice of tin. The gasoline evaporates MUCH faster.

Also, think about how the inside of your fuel tank is practically constantly coated with gasoline due to the sloshing from stopping, starting, turning, bumps, & just vibration. This means the surface area of gasoline exposed to air is always kept at a maximum. The more gasoline you have in contact with air, the faster it will evaporate. Also keep in mind that at 1/4 gallon, there is 3x as much air in your tank which will have evaporated gasoline in it. Anytime this air escapes your tank, some gasoline escapes with it.

In fact, gasoline evaporation is such a large factor, the EPA is starting to try to control it. That is why a loose or missing gas cap on an OBDII equipped vehicle will throw an SES light. The gas cap must be able to hold a minimum amount of pressure in the tank...if it is loose or leaking, a large amount of vapors are allowed to escape.

It would be very interesting if someone used a more scientific approach to determine the effects on mileage that filling up when empty vs. filling up when 3/4 full will have. Just alternate by months...on odd months, fill up when your tank is 70%-80% full. On even months, fill up when the tank is near empty. Remember the gauge doesn't matter, just keep an accurate record of miles:gallon, by taking the readings from the pump & odometer. I think you would see a measurable increase in mileage, & I think that probably 80% of your increase in mileage would be due to a decrease in gasoline evaporation.

Thoughts?
 
Aren't the gasoline tank vapors absorbed (adsorbed?) by the charcoal canister, and that vents into the engine intake? My tank has a slight vacuum when I remove the cap immediately after driving. The goal is to keep gasoline vapors out of the atmosphere.

Ken

[ November 17, 2002, 07:31 PM: Message edited by: Ken ]
 
A lot of times I will fill my tank after 2-3 days worth of driving (when it's still above 1/2 tank) simply because I know the price is going up (our prices on gas in Canada fluctuate wildly, going up and down several times per week) and I honestly don't see any difference in my MPG when I fill up the tank early compared to when I let it go longer.
 
Hmmm, I hadn't really considered that Ken. I've never done much (any) reading on the evaporative emissions preventions stuff. I notice a pressure difference in my tank when I fill up as well, but I assumed it was positive pressure due to heat & the fact that I can sometimes see vapors coming from the nozzle. If it is under vaccum then I'm wrong.

Patman...I don't think the difference would be large enough that you would notice unless you kept really accurate records. Probably less than one percent. Of course if Ken is right (sounds like he is) then my theory is off completely & I'll shutup now.
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lol.gif
I kinda figured I'd throw a monkey wrench into this
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Actually steve, I'd have to say that there is only a slight occassion that I ever top off my tank and check the mileage and because of that, I have never caught this mileage difference. It wasn't until I started looking at this on purpose that I noticed it worked and it was a considerable jump from what it was. Now I expect everyone to try this and see how it effects your mileage.
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quote:

Originally posted by SteveR:
Patman...I don't think the difference would be large enough that you would notice unless you kept really accurate records. Probably less than one percent. Of course if Ken is right (sounds like he is) then my theory is off completely & I'll shutup now.
smile.gif


I do keep accurate records, and my car is pretty consistent. I'm usually right at 19.0 MPG, unless it's really cold then it goes down or if I've gotten stuck in more traffic than usual.
 
Mikie,

Which Amsoil formulation are you using, by the way? I'd suspect it's probably their 0w-30 or 5w-30 ....The 0w-30 normally shows significantly better results then the regular 5w-30 or 10w-30 when it comes to fuel efficiency.

TooSlick
 
I think Bob:
"In short mpg checks like the 3 miles suggested, you are doing a very controlled experiment. but that cannot be a bases to show in dramatic increase over the standard over a full tank mpg reading based on the simple fact that the longer you run your vehicle, the mpg's are going to drop because you will introduce more variables such as idle time at lights and in traffic, more accelerations and stop's, more climbing up and down hills, and of course mpg's are different when the engine is cold vers hot, so depending on how many stops and starts you do during a course of the tank of gas will immensely affect mpgs as well."

And Patman:
"I'm usually right at 19.0 MPG, unless it's really cold then it goes down or if I've gotten stuck in more traffic than usual."

...have touched on an important variable in this test, the cold engine. During the time it takes to use most of a tank of gas there will be a number of cold starts, each lowering the avg mpg measured for the whole tank. However, if one fills up, drives a short way, then fills up again, the whole test is done with the engine warm... it was warm by the time you got the first fill up, and it was still warm on the second. Nobody has considered doing this full tank, short mileage test over several days to make the same number of cold starts you make using a full tank.

Another variation, would be if someone was doing a lot of driving in one day. They could fill up, use most of the gas, and fill up again, all with the engine hot and no cold starts. The measured mpg should be better than for multiple trips.

Or, Bob, are you saying the full tank test will still show more mpg?
 
quote:

Originally posted by Sciguyjim:
Or, Bob, are you saying the full tank test will still show more mpg?

It seems to me the most accurate indicator (if your vehicle has it) would be the on board trip computer. It measures the actual flow rate and gallons used against the actual distance travelled. Filling your tank up and dividing the number of gallons into the miles traveled since the last fill-up is the least accurate method unless you happen to fill the tank to the precise level it was filled before. And accounting for temp variations, gas pump variations, etc. the chances of doing that are nil.

[ November 18, 2002, 09:50 AM: Message edited by: XHVI ]
 
That's an excellent point! If you don't stop the gas pump nozzle at the exact same point, your results can be skewed a lot, especially if you're filling it up at 3/4 of a tank, as that slight half gallon difference would be more exageratted on a smaller fillup. That's why I always figure out my gas mileage over a longer period of time (1000 miles or so usually)

[ November 18, 2002, 10:14 AM: Message edited by: Patman ]
 
The best thing to do is try driving less than 1/4 from full. Remember, got to start out with a completely full tank, not in the middle. It is very simple and doesn't cost anything.

I do not believe that the kind of increase you are seeing is due to the oil. You can at times see some slight increases by the change of lubricants in an engine but very limited. If my math is correct, a jump from 14.3 to 15.9 is a 9%? increase?, If you have an oil that flows easier like amsoil, you might pick up some, but if the oil has a good friction modifier such as moly you at best might see 3 to 5%. Where you really see increases in mileage on a vehicle with lubrication is in certain types of fuel additives that actually cleaned up some tips on the injectors and or in gear areas such as rear ends and manual tranny's that use sliding surfaces and by using a high friction modified oil will reduce the drag thus increaseing the mileage much higher than the 3-5% an engine might provide under perfect situations.
 
TooSlick, I'm using 5W-30 full synth.

Bob, I picked up all that difference not just in the oil but in Auto-RX and then the oil. Picked up about 2/3 of that with the RX and 1/3 with the oil. It may also be my driving habits helping a bit cause I want to see an increase so therefore I unconsciously drive a bit more moderately.

XHVI, I'm unsure how onboard milage computers work but please tell me where the flow meter is. I've seen my entire fuel system (except for in the tank) and have not seen anything different from a vehicle without the onboard puter. I'd like to know how these things work exactly.

Mikie
 
quote:

Originally posted by Weatherlite:
XHVI, I'm unsure how onboard milage computers work but please tell me where the flow meter is. I've seen my entire fuel system (except for in the tank) and have not seen anything different from a vehicle without the onboard puter. I'd like to know how these things work exactly.

I'm pretty sure (though not 100%) that the trip comupter measures fuel used through the fuel injection computer. I'll do some checking and see if I can find out for sure.
 
The built-in mileage computers i've worked on aren't accurate, mostly because they make presumptions about some component of fuel delivery. The ECU knows about stock injector delivery rate, pulse widths, and original pressure curves, but not necessarily actual pressure. This may vary by 25% or more, depending on throttle, pump/regulator/injector condition, etc. Install non-factory injectors and the numbers really fall apart. I've found the built-in mileage gauges to be more of a driver-aid for moment to moment than for the long haul. It's much more accurate to compute mileage manually. The more miles the better.

David
 
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