Out goes the M1, in goes the Red Line

[moribundman]

There was still no new M1 5W-40 on the shelves here in the Baya Area, so I figured why not try something new? I bought some Red Line 5W-30 and infused my engine with that Gatorade-wannabe. This is of course for my Audi 2.8 V6 12 valve engine.

First impressions:

- wallet shock ($59 for 6 qt) -- have to give up gambling temporarily!

- pours like water at 54 F ambient (seriously!)
- smells like RL gear oils, but less pungent
- engine runs very smoothly and quietly
- oil temp may be a hair (one needle width) lower
- I've used 5W-40, 5W-50 and 0W-40 (once topped off with GC 0W-30, and DELO 400 15W-40) and I could never feel any power loss or gaim due to oil -- until the RL, which, by the seat of my pants, seemed to free up some ponies.

It meets/exceeds ACEA A3/B4/API SM (how???) per Red Line. HTHS is a nifty 3.8 for my peace of mind.

I'll keep a close eye on oil and fuel consumption and I will report soon.

I took a sample of the previous M1 5W-40 and will have Blackstone analyze and Terry interpret. I will post the UOA, along with the previous one (pre-ARX) on the same oil, but I won't be able to fill you in on Terry's comments.

So, how do you expect the RL 5W-30 to do in my 145k miles old Audi engine?

 

[buster]

You might experience some brief oil consumption. Some people see that when switching over to RL or other synthetics. I only used RL once for a short 5k mile run in a Corolla and I really thought it made the car a bit quicker. I plan on running RL 5w-20 next. Once I'm out of that and if I don't go back to it, I'll try Pennzoil Platinum.

I think RL is implying that you can use this oil in a car that calls for a SM rated oil. It clearly doesn't meet the SM spec. Way too much ZDDP in RL.

 

[wavinwayne]

quote:

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Originally posted by moribundman:
.....So, how do you expect the RL 5W-30 to do in my 145k miles old Audi engine?

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You used RL 5w30 in your Audi!???

Bad Moribundman!

The Audi Öl-Polizei will be coming for you shortly.

Honestly, I expect the oil to do just fine. I have heard similar "frees up a few ponies" responses from several guys on the vwvortex that use 5w30 & 10w30 in their 1.8T's. How many miles do you plan to run the RL?

Keep us updated.

 

[Pablo]

quote:

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It meets/exceeds ACEA A3/B4/API SM (how???) per Red Line.

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I guess it only bugs you when certain oil companies claim specs.

 

[Dark Jedi]

if you went from a 40 w to a 30 w. then it will seem like it picked up a few more ponies. as its lighter and your engine dont have to work as hard to push that 30w. as compared to that 40. you should of used the RL 40w and then you can see if its any different.

 

[moribundman]

buster, I'll let you know how consumption changes. Volatility is very low, but maybe that slick stuff will make its way through every old seal and gasket.

wavinwayne, UOA after 5k miles will hopefully allow me to keep going to my usual 8-10k mile OCI.

Pablo, the Red Line bottles are just so convenient with their long necks. And I can buy them over the counter. Maybe if Al were to throw in a bottle free vitamins with his oil...

 

[moribundman]

quote:

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if you went from a 40 w to a 30 w. then it will seem like it picked up a few more ponies. as its lighter and your engine dont have to work as hard to push that 30w. as compared to that 40. you should of used the RL 40w and then you can see if its any different.

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M1 0W-40 is almost a 0W-30. and there is no discernible power difference. between that and 15W-40 or even 5W-50. I went on purpose. down to a 5W-30. because it had a more than adequate HTHS. and because it did not contain. any VIs. On the other hand. RL 5W-40 does have VIs.

 

[abimanyu]

Redline will probably exceed SM and other certifications for the next decade or so.

 

[Pablo]

What is the P level of Redline?

quote:

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Redline will probably exceed SM and other certifications for the next decade or so.

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Well except maybe the P level.

I'm thinking it's over 800 ppm.

Just having some fun today. I think Redline is an excellent (yet spendy) oil.

 

[ccs2k1]

quote:

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Originally posted by moribundman:
So, how do you expect the RL 5W-30 to do in my 145k miles old Audi engine?

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How are your seals/gaskets? I am curious to see how Jag's claims against RL and gasket compatibility stack up (my tranny developed a leak after RL MT-90; coincidence?).

 

[dailydriver]

quote:

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Originally posted by moribundman:

quote:

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if you went from a 40 w to a 30 w. then it will seem like it picked up a few more ponies. as its lighter and your engine dont have to work as hard to push that 30w. as compared to that 40. you should of used the RL 40w and then you can see if its any different.

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M1 0W-40 is almost a 0W-30. and there is no discernible power difference. between that and 15W-40 or even 5W-50. I went on purpose. down to a 5W-30. because it had a more than adequate HTHS. and because it did not contain. any VIs. On the other hand. RL 5W-40 does have VIs.

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OK. I was going to ask about your rationale for going with the 5W-30 over their 5W-40, especially if you were thinking the 30 was way too thin. You answered this here. I'm using the 5W-40 and hopefully, even though it has VIs added, it has enough HTHS, TBN and vis. to not shear down despite the VIs.

 

[JAG]

FWIW, Mike from Tyrolsport (tuner shop in NYC)used Redline 5W-40 in his VW 1.8T engine with apparent success but Redline gear oil (don't remember which one) leaked out of his tranny where the two halves meet. As you said Mori, just keep an eye on consumption and leaks. It's apparently very hit or miss with oils with such a high ester content.

 

[dailydriver]

quote:

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Originally posted by moribundman:
Pablo, the Red Line bottles are just so convenient with their long necks. And I can buy them over the counter. Maybe if Al were to throw in a bottle free vitamins with his oil...

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HA! That's funny.

But seriously, I like both co.'s oils. I'm an Amsoil preferred customer. The only reason I went with RL this change is 'cause I exchanged some D4 I could not use for it (and the HTHS and vis. were higher for the summer than Amsoil's). Kind of like I do not subscribe to the Ford vs. Chevy thing. It's all good!

You did pay too much for the RL though (Pablo is right about that). I payed 7.99/qt. per individual quart (not case lot). Of course as a P.C. I pay much less than that for the Amsoil Euro.

 

[Winston]

What was your oil consumption with the M1 and GC?

 

[JohnBrowning]

Dark Jedi, WHile it is true that you do notice some extra ponies when reduceing viscosity RL is a different beast! Many people notice this same effect even when going from a 5W30 to say Redline 10W40 etc...... Redline has so much moly that the parts just seem to move more freely. In addition to it's beefy additive package the ester base stocks seem to make a huge difference in an operateing engine. So my point is that it is often not just due to difference in SAE viscosity.

 

[JohnBrowning]

Do not be suprised if the first or second UOA do not look that great!! It usualyb takes 2-3 OCI with RL before you get the nice ultra low UOA.

 

[moribundman]

Regarding RL causing leaks: I have been using RL MT-90 and RL 75W-90 in my quattro for a couple years and so far so good. I really like how smooth the MT shifts and how quiet the rear differential is. So far there have been no leaks. I'll keep a close eye on the engine an signs of leakage.

Winston, consumption with M1 5W-40 was ca 0.5 qt/1k mi pre-ARX and ca 0.3 qt/1k mi post ARX initially, with consumption rising to ca 0.6 q/1k mi towards the end of the OCI. I never ran just GC 0W-30 in this engine. I topped off M1 0W-40 with GC once.

 

[tdi-rick]

quote:

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M1 0W-40 is almost a 0W-30. and there is no discernible power difference

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and I wouldn't expect you to feel any. It still amazes me when I read people can pick the difference between an SAE 40 and a 30 at working temp. At the most, there would be two, maybe three horspower in it at the flywheel (and I doubt three) having engine dyno'ed a few oils going from 25W-50 down to 0W-5 in a little 1600cc race engine.
Experienced race test drivers couldn't pick three horspower, and yet I constantly see BITOGers claiming to feel the difference ??!!

Sorry for the vent on your thread Morri, I'll climb down off my soap box now.

It'd be interesting to do a series of UOA's on the RL with Terry's interpretation, just to see what differnces, if any, occur.
Geez I'm good at Spending others money, aren't I

As to the RL pouring like water, try pouring some NEO 0W-5 into a race engine in front of a couple of mechanics 13 years ago. Priceless.

 

[GoldenRod]

Pablo, did you hear that? You boys better be switching to a long neck bottle!

 

[pscholte]

quote:

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Originally posted by wavinwayne:

quote:

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Originally posted by moribundman:
.....So, how do you expect the RL 5W-30 to do in my 145k miles old Audi engine?

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You used RL 5w30 in your Audi!???

Bad Moribundman!

The Audi Öl-Polizei will be coming for you shortly.

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It's not the Öl-Polizei he needs to worry about...it's those little guys whose blending plant is not ALL THAT FAR from Neckarsulm oder Ingolstadt.