Options on the Honda fit

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quote:

Originally posted by Thermo1223:
Honda can't do with 2.2l what VW can do with 1.9l is my point in diesel form.

I think it's wonderful for you to be a VW enthusiast, just like it's great that there are still Fiat and Trabant fans.
However, a quick glance at the British website What Car will tell you that Honda's 2.2TDI makes 138bhp (4000 rpm) and 251 ft-lb (2000 rpm), while the VW 2.0TDI makes 138bhp (4000 rpm) and 236ft-lb (1750 rpm). I'm giving you some leeway here, as the VW 1.9TDI makes only 104bhp (4000) and 184ft-lb (1900), at least in England. (I compared a Civic 2.2TDI 5dr with a Golf 2.0TDI 5dr and Golf 1.9TDI 5dr.)
So not too bad for Honda's first effort (which everyone is RAVING about in Europe, by the way).
Just trying to keep you honest.
 
Thermo, I get what yore saying and agree..

Now, dont try to argue the pros of VWs too much... I am a very happy saab owner, and are in the same boat - you could praise the virtues endlessly, and many will just shoot and shoot you down no matter what!!!

Id never buy a car that has a markup (except maybe a corvette z06). certainly not a Honda product.

As for looks, Im not a fan of the element, and the new civic isnt all that great to me.. but the fit is designed in a neat little package, with high utility and small exterior dimensions - to me its nice... YMMV.

As far as VW 4 cylinders being more powerful and whatnot... maybe diesels... though Id still take an old MB diesel anyday over a newer VW. But once again, thats just me. Their gas engines havent mpressed me much. the standard old 2.0 is very poor in the power department, and after driving a 1.8 GTI and an 1.8 Jetta (both MT) numerous times, Im much happier with my saab turbo 4cyl. My opinion again though...

As for diesels, I see what youre saying... per Tosh's information, and from the UK sites. However for what theyre worth - look at the consumption rates - the VW 2.0TDI in the golf is rated at 140/236 lb-ft, combined economy of 49.6 MPG, and emissions of 154 g/km. The civic 2.2 makes 138/236lb-ft, combined economy of 55.4MPG and emissions of 135 g/km. sure the two vehicles may be a bit diffeent in design and purpose, but the Honda product seems to be a bit ore efficient - the #1 metric to most diesel buyers - we know were not going anywhere fast! Even if we stepped back and used the VW 1.9 TDI, were looking at 105/184lb-ft, but still only 51.4 MPG in combined driving, and 143g/km pollution.

Im far from the person who blindly defends the Jpanese automakers, and Ive sure been vocal in saying that for example the fit's highway MPG is nothing short of disapointing... but if both diesels were available over here right now, Id take the Honda over the VW - personally...
Of course, if I was looking for a highway cruiser or highway commuter, and had the $$$ Id be snatching up one of these without thnking twice:
http://www.mbusa.com/models/main.do?modelCode=E320CDI

All my opinion , YMMV - appreciate the discussion!

JMH
 
They'll probably add a lot of options in next year's model. First year production typically isn't very interesting as they want to keep the introductory price down and pump out as many as they can without any glitches. I know what you mean about the cruise control thing. Quite a few small cars seem to leave it out of the equation somehow. I was ready to buy a Focus wagon a couple years back, then found out that Ford didn't offer a manual transmission in the wagon model. What dolts.
 
but the fit has been made and sold in europe and asia for years!!!

no MT wagon??? I agree with you - what dolts!

JMH
 
No problem guys,

Well my saying with the 1.9l was a trade off on fuel economy. Like when buying a PD150 in 1.9l form which I would gladly buy even if I barely broke 50mpg. 147HP and roughly the same torque as a 2.0 TDI but then you have a 170HP version I believe that was available in 2.0 form. That was what I meant, if you want the power it's there.

I agree on the pollution issue. Thats the reason VW scraped production here till 2008 when they can bring Common Rail engines over to meet US standards. Honda uses Common Rail on the 2.2 whereas VW still uses Pressurized Injection without a fuel rail on the 1.9l and others.

I eagerly await the 2008 ones. Wife keeps eyeing a Rabbit.

The same reason they scraped the Injection Pump on mine trying to control emissions with higher pressure and more power but now it is Common Rail or bust.

Yes a E320CDI(especially th new Bluetec emission friendly version) would be an excellent highway car.

Good Luck

I also agree what dolts, I can honestly say TDI's would have been a huge flop if no manual was offered.
 
MTs are outdated. I wouldn't ever consider getting one. The newer 5-spd/6-spd Automatics are smooth, have manual shift mode, and obtain at least equal fuel economy to a MT.

IMO, the newer 5-spd/6-spd Automatics (or any automatic) can shift at optimal times for best fuel efficiency...better than a human can.

Even if I bought a Corvette, I wouldn't get a manual.
 
Thermo1223, thanks for pointing out the differences...

though im not particularly keen on the vw offerings, I wish they'd have kept them on the market - one key IMO is to raise the knowledge level and public acceptance of diesels - something that VW has been doing, and which wont happen again until 08.

JMH
 
quote:

Originally posted by The Critic:
MTs are outdated. I wouldn't ever consider getting one. The newer 5-spd/6-spd Automatics are smooth, have manual shift mode, and obtain at least equal fuel economy to a MT.

IMO, the newer 5-spd/6-spd Automatics (or any automatic) can shift at optimal times for best fuel efficiency...better than a human can.

Even if I bought a Corvette, I wouldn't get a manual.


rolleyes.gif
AT corvette?!? I dont know...

I don't agree, but to each to each their own.

How much more updated can a MT possibly get??? there isnt a lot more that I know of that can be done, short of increasing driver skill. ATs have had how many whatever years of 'driver skill' learned into them through design of logic, computer systems, etc. all done to make up for the human brain and skill.

JMH
 
IMO anything that still has a torque convertor I don't want at least on a smaller 4 cylinder engine.

Direct Shift Gearbox maybe but nothing with a power sucking torque convertor. I can understand the need for them in trucks or bigger cars because shifting in those would get old fast.

There will always be a market for MT's because people always want to row thier own gears sometimes.

Outdated? Well thats like saying the IC engine is outdated which is right but doesn't prove we don't need it still.
 
Man, I pulled up next to a Fit this morn on the way to work...If I get one, I'm gonna have to request the option package with the....larger car.

Man, that thing is LITTLE. It's as small as an AVEO!
 
Ever see a Scion xA? They are tiny too and at one point I thought a Golf was a little small. It's huge compared to them.

I still drive an A2 or Polo if they were brought over though, 80MPG would kill all worries.
 
A2 or polo??? Id go for one of those!!!

Yes, the fit is very small - its a short tripcommuter type city car with high utility. Which is exactly the point - buzz around all the bloatd vehicles jammed up on the streets on a friday afternoon
smile.gif


JMH
 
You're noticing the "tier" effect of making the loss leader Fit undesirable. This has been going on since the beginning of time with cars, actually used to be worse. Pay 20% more and get a couple more electronic doodads but the same powertrain, body, etc? Give me a break. I bet the base fit only comes in 3 ugly colors and they'd try pretty hard to use black bumpers too.
smile.gif


I bet you can get a stock stereo with 1/8" plug on ebay like you want from someone who upgraded. Just make sure there isn't a lock code or data bus vin verification. Otherwise rip yours out and get a $100 aftermarket unit with what you want.

Similarly, cruise *should* be easy, especially if the car has throttle-by-wire. But you might need a PCM reflash. Worst case scenario, audiovox has an aftermarket cruise you can put in for a couple hundred bucks at a car stereo shop. A friend of mine from work did this in a base pontiac vibe so he didn't need a $1000 package to get cruise.

The car's factory service manual would be a godsend to figure how this is done. For all you know the importer might install this stuff after the fact at the port, and it'd be super easy.
 
The fit gets worse mileage than the civic and corolla while being smaller.

The fit is an answer that has no question.

I really don't see why anyone would want one of the sardine cans except for mileage and the mileage is better on the larger civic and corolla.

I think the pocket protector crowd in Japan finally noticed that Americans will get all goofy about anything with the Honda brand glued to it.
 
quote:

Originally posted by eljefino:
Otherwise rip yours out and get a $100 aftermarket unit with what you want.

That might be easier said than done..have you seen the stereo in the Fit? It looks like it might be integrated with the HVAC controls, and even if not, it's not standard sized unit so you'll need a dash kit and I doubt those are available yet.
 
quote:

Originally posted by milwaukee:
The fit gets worse mileage than the civic and corolla while being smaller.

The fit is an answer that has no question.

I really don't see why anyone would want one of the sardine cans except for mileage and the mileage is better on the larger civic and corolla.

I think the pocket protector crowd in Japan finally noticed that Americans will get all goofy about anything with the Honda brand glued to it.


The last line of your post was the only one with real truth to it...

Is the CITY mileage on the civic and/or corolla better than on the fit?? I dont believe so... and the fit is (admitteldy based upon wording in their brocheure) designed for city type use.

Exterior dimensions and interior utility are the reasons the fit is useful for the city commuter type. And, frankly, I venture to guess that the civic gets WAY too hot in the summer with that HUGE angled windshield.

As for adding all sorts of afternarketr stuff - maybe in the end all its cheaper or in some way better, but the value of a clean integration is very high to me - especially for that kind of stuff. Sure, clean integration of aftermarket stuff is possible, but 9 times out of 10 it isnt as good as OE.

JMH
 
The mileage is.............

all manual trans per epa estimates..........

fit 33/38
civic sedan 30/38
corrolla 32/41

The fit mileage sucks compared to the larger cars.

I need to address what you said as well.

"Which is exactly the point - buzz around all the bloatd vehicles jammed up on the streets on a friday afternoon"

What? Do you have propeller on the roof? Special roads just for you?

The idea that one can get around easier in a urban environment in a fit because it is smaller is pure silliness. Are fits going to be driving on sidewalks while all the "large" civics are stopped in traffic? Didn't think so. You will still share the same crowded roads as everyone else and wait in the same stop and go traffic as you did before in your other cars.

This a vehicle that begs for an answer.
 
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