Opinions on my situation?

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Hi, thanks for having me on the forum. This has always been my go-to place for oil related inquiries so I hope to get some advice tonight. It's sort of an odd situation but I'll try not to run long.

Basically, I purchased a 1995 Chevy 350 from a pick up and have adapted it for marine use to replace a 305 that overheated.. As I was tearing the new 350 down to marine-ize it, I found some sludge in the valvetrain and in the lifter valley. I scraped, vacuumed, wiped and then washed it all down with a few gallons of diesel, making sure all oil ports were clear. I elected not to pull the pan and open up a bigger can of worms, because from what I hear in most cases it's best to not disturb the sludge. I plan to just clean it out slowly with high detergent oils. It was not what I would consider extreme, just a thin black coating in most places.

Anyways, I have the engine in the boat and it runs well with no odd noises or issues. BUT it seems to have extremely high oil pressure, confirmed on my mechanical test gauge. Around 45-50 PSI at IDLE, and up to 75 at 2500 RPM under load. I have not let it get any higher than that because I'm sure it would spring a leak. Those figures are at normal operating temperature, which this time of year isn't very high on a boat.

I have 10w30 Farm & Fleet (Citgo) full synthetic in there now, as a clean out/test run oil, and because I had been running this oil in the old motor for many many years. The truck application called for 5w30, and the marine versions of this engine call for SAE30 (later back-rated to use 25w40 syn blend). There are no internal differences between marine and truck 350s of this era, so it's safe to assume I could use either one of those oils, although of course, the marine oil would better protect under constant load and against corrosion.

Either way, I need to do something to lower my oil pressure, and switching to 25w40 wont do it! I am almost certain sludge is causing some restriction in places, so I would like to use a heavy detergent oil and short OCIs to clean this motor out. I am considering dropping down to a Mobil 1 5w20, or at least 5w30, with M1 filter...

I have to take into consideration the type of use it sees...these motors have a 140* thermostat, and I also idle mine a lot for fishing. So not only does my oil not get hot, but I also get some fuel in it from this kind of use. Am I on the right track with my oil selections, or is there a better way? The last thing I want to do is blow it up, or have to pull it apart for repairs again.

Thanks for any and all inputs!
 
An engine running at 140 degrees is going to have significantly higher pressure than something running at normal automotive temps. Doesn't sounds that high, considering. If pressure stops rising at a certain point at least you would know your pressure relief valve is working.
 
The sludge might be caused from a coolant leak around the intake manifold. You should get a UOA done just to make sure.

If those are cold oil pressures numbers, they would seem reasonable. It should drop to ~20 psi at a hot idle. Switching to an oil with better cold flow properties would definitely help. F&F oil and 10w30 oils do not have the best cold flow properties.
 
Originally Posted By: ZackS
I would like to use a heavy detergent oil and short OCIs to clean this motor out. I am considering dropping down to a Mobil 1 5w20, or at least 5w30, with M1 filter...


I would avoid an oil that uses an Mg detergent - such as Edge or M1. Ca Sulfonates are better at neutralizing the weak acids found in deposits. Try MSS, PP, GC, QS or Havoline instead.

Everybody is going to say this is a myth, but expect the motor to leak a little oil if you switch to a premium synthetic. It will take a couple weeks for the drips to stop so remember to keep an eye on the oil level.
 
Originally Posted By: berniedd
I'd try a 0W-20 oil. There's an oil pressure gauge to tell you if you've overdone it, which would be highly unlikely.


In a motor that is prone to fuel dilution, I think going thicker would be more appropriate. Besides, if the intake screen is partially blocked, then oil pressure will drop as it gets cleaned out, and that could lead to low oil pressure.
 
Others have mentioned the 140 deg thermostat but i do not think they really drove the point home. Your 10W30 is way too thick at 140 degrees, that is were your high oil pressure is coming from. Another has said try 0W20, i think i would do 5W20 first and watch the oil gauge for normal oil pressure before i went down one more step to 0W20. If you want an oil that cleans well Pennzoil ultra $$$ is probably the best for 5W20, with Mobil 1 second.
 
Originally Posted By: wally6934
Others have mentioned the 140 deg thermostat but i do not think they really drove the point home. Your 10W30 is way too thick at 140 degrees, that is were your high oil pressure is coming from. Another has said try 0W20, i think i would do 5W20 first and watch the oil gauge for normal oil pressure before i went down one more step to 0W20. If you want an oil that cleans well Pennzoil ultra $$$ is probably the best for 5W20, with Mobil 1 second.

I'd use a 180* T-Stat for cooler weather...

As someone else mentioned, it probably has a HV pump in it...

BTW if there were a restriction causing high oil pressure whatever wasn't getting oil would have been very unhappy and making a bunch of racket...

The not pulling the pan on a used engine especially with sludge was a BIG mistake... Had it been mine the pan would have defiantly come off and if it had a HV pump I'd have put a stock one in...
 
Either you have a high pressure oil pump (but why) or you have gunk in the oil pump relief valve. I would have pulled the pan, you could have cleaned things up.

I assume a 140 degree thermostat is the right one for a RWC engine?
 
Echo the above concerns on the oil viscosity - if the engine is only running at 140°F, then the 10W-30 will be too viscous. I am not familiar with how those Chevy engines are cooled when they are set up for marine. Does cool water from under the boat cool the engine, or is it a normal air-cooled/coolant radiator setup?

I still think it might be worth your while to open the thing up and give it a good cleaning - and to continue using high detergent oils for a while. Just speculating, but maybe a synthetic fleet oil 5W-30 would be helpful.
 
I didn't see you post what the original engine in the boat specs for oil pressure at idle and under load. Maybe, the original 305 was supposed to run at that high of a pressure for marine use and you're OK with the current engine then?

I'd also question why it would run a 140° thermostat in marine use. Try a 180° stat and see what the changes are.

It's nice to see another fellow WI resident on the board. I'm guessing that you live in the southern part of the state as there are no Blaine's north of Milwaukee. Instead of Farm & Fleet, we have Fleet Farm up here, but they are not related.
 
Realistically, this engine needs torn down to the long block and a few things checked/replaced/rectified.

1) Piston ring end gaps are different on marine engines. Might need to adjust them.

2) Camshaft profiles are different. Will really pick up quite a bit more power running a marine spec camshaft.

3) Engine might have a high volume/high pressure oil pump which could theoretically suck the oil pan dry at cruise RPM. Replace with a regular oil pump.

4) Clean all the sludge out of the oil pan and off the oil pickup.

5) Would be nice to check bearing clearances while it is apart also.

6) If the engine pulls cold water from the lake/ocean, then 140 degree thermostat is usually recommended. If it is a closed system with a radiator, then 160 degree thermostat is recommended.

7) Run an HD oil like Rotella 10W30 or Defy 10W30
 
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Mobil 1 High Mileage 5w20 should do their trick. Tons of additives and it's not too thin at operating temperature.


+1
 
Originally Posted By: threeputtpar
I'd also question why it would run a 140° thermostat in marine use. Try a 180° stat and see what the changes are.


At approximately 145 degrees, the salt in saltwater starts to crystallize and stick to water jackets, water ports, etc causing a blockage. A very widespread know phenomenon. Hence, why they recommend a 140 thermostat for open loop cooling systems.
 
Originally Posted By: bubbatime
Originally Posted By: threeputtpar
I'd also question why it would run a 140° thermostat in marine use. Try a 180° stat and see what the changes are.


At approximately 145 degrees, the salt in saltwater starts to crystallize and stick to water jackets, water ports, etc causing a blockage. A very widespread know phenomenon. Hence, why they recommend a 140 thermostat for open loop cooling systems.


On one of my first boats I converted it to a closed loop heat exchanger setup for very low dough. Then all those issues went away. If I recall the heat exchanger was extremely small and actually required very little fresh water flow even with a medium sized V8 engine...
 
Unless you are boating in salt water with raw water cooling, you should be running a 160 stat. The 143 stats are for boats running raw water cooling in salt and/or brackish water, to prevent salt deposits that form at highter temperatures.

Running a 180 (may) cause problems with hot spots and boiling in an unpressurized (raw water) system. I know someone who is doing it and "hasnt had problems" but I would never recommend it, and you wont see Mercruiser recommending one that high either. Even in closed (heat exchanger) systems, they come from the factory with 160's.

I'm not convinced the water temperature is the issue here anyway. My engine runs 160-170-ish and after a long run at WOT or pulling skier/tubers I have seen some pretty high, sometimes alarmingly high, oil temps even though the water temperature is normal. Sounds like this 350 has a high volume pump in it, as others have mentioned.
 
First off, thank you so much to all of you for your insights, I do appreciate them.

To touch on a few things...yes the boat is raw water cooled, used in fresh water here on Lake Michigan. I never thought about changing thermostats, but I am giving the 160* some thought since it is due for replacement next year anyways. Seems like it would be better for the engine overall. I really dont like the idea of a hot engine on a boat full of fumes, batteries and fuel, so I'll pass on a 180...not to mention an automotive thermostat like that will not even fit if I wanted it to.

As far as a teardown on the lower end, I dont see it happening. It was a second hand budget motor, swapped just to save the rest of the season and get me back into some fishing contests. I'm not saying I want the motor to blow up, but with any project, you have to chose how far you can afford to get into it, be it with time or money. I made the call to leave the bottom end alone, and although I do regret it a little, I feel that overall I have a good running engine with good compression and I can make the best of it and make it last with proper care.

I've not ruled out the possibility of it having a high volume pump...as with any used motor, who knows? I was just sort of alarmed at the pressure difference between new and old engines. The original 305 would have around 10-15 PSI at "warm" idle, and that was running the same 10w30, and the Castrol HD30 previous to my switch-over to synthetic. Granted, it was a well worn engine, no doubt. Over 2000 hrs run time. This 350 may just be a lot healthier and I over-react...

Either way, I bought a jug of M1 high mileage 5w20. I was actually surprised that Wal-Mart carried it. Good price too, but they have no filters that I would run. Gave a close look at the Bosch Distance Plus...looks nice, but I can get my tried and true Mobil 1s for less $...

Will keep a close eye on everything and hope for a gentle cleanout of remaining sludge with this oil.

Anyways, thanks again. Will keep you posted!
 
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