One step away from the Stone Age

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Some news outlets pick and choose what they run, news by omission.

Some never covered the story about citizens stopping an attempted shooting spree at a Louisiana guns store and range. Happened yesterday.

3 dead, one of them being the suspect.
 
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Kentucky
Edit and splice everything … don’t cover but one ideology in a positive light … turn little things into big drama or don’t cover what should be a big story … on and on …
Yep, both sides do it and claim to be the source for news. It funny, when they are taken to court they claim to be entertainment only.. I think we are being played.
 
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ct
Let's be sure to qualify "work perfectly fine" to mean that they typically don't freeze up (heated blades, nacelle and housings). They can still be shutdown due to impending over-speed and don't produce when it isn't windy, which happens frequently during the summer months and cold snaps.

This is one of my go-to shots from the summer of 2019 (I track wind turbine output across Ontario):
View attachment 46290

No amount of winter preparedness mitigates a lack of wind, and winter capacity, during a cold spell, can be similarly impacted as it is during a hot spell in the summer. During the most recent one, wind output in Ontario was below 200MW (of 5,000) for several days.

Now, I will add that overall wind performance is better in Texas than it is in Ontario, but we are still talking of a total output profile of ~1,000MW of 28,000MW at its lowest during the events of the 15th even if they had been fitted with the cold weather package.

Correct, but in addition to wind and solar *mostly* working, our houses are also equipped to handle the cold. Pipes are not built into exterior walls. Most pipes are not anywhere near unconditioned space (like an attic) and if they are, they are heavily insulated and sometimes even provided with "leaked" heat from below on purpose.

So, wind or solar going out, we can still brave the cold much better (on top of the fact that we're actually used to cold weather). So even if TX was without power, it should not have been anywhere near as disastrous as it was.

Maybe its because Ive been in the northeast my whole life, but even if I moved to Arizona, Texas, etc...I would have a winter jacket or two and some nice thick blankets. Because you never know.
 
Joined
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Some news outlets pick and choose what they run, news by omission.

Some never covered the story about citizens stopping an attempted shooting spree at a Louisiana guns store and range. Happened yesterday.

3 dead, one of them being the suspect.
it's been like that since they did away with the fairness doctrine. We watch the " news" we like to hear now.
 

OVERKILL

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Correct, but in addition to wind and solar *mostly* working, our houses are also equipped to handle the cold. Pipes are not built into exterior walls. Most pipes are not anywhere near unconditioned space (like an attic) and if they are, they are heavily insulated and sometimes even provided with "leaked" heat from below on purpose.

So, wind or solar going out, we can still brave the cold much better (on top of the fact that we're actually used to cold weather). So even if TX was without power, it should not have been anywhere near as disastrous as it was.

Maybe its because Ive been in the northeast my whole life, but even if I moved to Arizona, Texas, etc...I would have a winter jacket or two and some nice thick blankets. Because you never know.
I flew into DFW several years back and they had gotten snow/ice that morning and there were 500 accidents in the area which they were working on clearing up by the time I arrived. The Police officer laughed when she saw me coming out of the Air Canada luggage pick-up and was the one who told me about the accidents, telling me I just missed all the fun. She said something along the lines of "you're from Canada, you get snow up there, we get it here and nobody knows how to drive in it, it's a disaster!" and laughed again, telling me to have a good day and enjoy the entertainment or something along those lines.

Another time I was there they had a massive storm, including a tornado. I believe the Cowboys were playing in or up to the super bowl at that time? Anyways, the games going on there's a tornado nearby and I'm watching the flooding from my hotel room just gobsmacked. There was nowhere for the water to go, which I thought was an interesting infrastructure decision. Similar rains in Ontario (which I assume are far more frequent) don't cause the same issues, but then I don't think we get anywhere the number of tornadoes they do either. Our storm drain system is also completely different in configuration, which I've noticed varies significantly state-to-state.
 

4WD

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I flew into DFW several years back and they had gotten snow/ice that morning and there were 500 accidents in the area which they were working on clearing up by the time I arrived. The Police officer laughed when she saw me coming out of the Air Canada luggage pick-up and was the one who told me about the accidents, telling me I just missed all the fun. She said something along the lines of "you're from Canada, you get snow up there, we get it here and nobody knows how to drive in it, it's a disaster!" and laughed again, telling me to have a good day and enjoy the entertainment or something along those lines.

Another time I was there they had a massive storm, including a tornado. I believe the Cowboys were playing in or up to the super bowl at that time? Anyways, the games going on there's a tornado nearby and I'm watching the flooding from my hotel room just gobsmacked. There was nowhere for the water to go, which I thought was an interesting infrastructure decision. Similar rains in Ontario (which I assume are far more frequent) don't cause the same issues, but then I don't think we get anywhere the number of tornadoes they do either. Our storm drain system is also completely different in configuration, which I've noticed varies significantly state-to-state.
Snow ? We get rain all the time, heavy downpours … and you think an F350 or Cummins Ram is going to slow down for that ?
 
Joined
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ct
I flew into DFW several years back and they had gotten snow/ice that morning and there were 500 accidents in the area which they were working on clearing up by the time I arrived. The Police officer laughed when she saw me coming out of the Air Canada luggage pick-up and was the one who told me about the accidents, telling me I just missed all the fun. She said something along the lines of "you're from Canada, you get snow up there, we get it here and nobody knows how to drive in it, it's a disaster!" and laughed again, telling me to have a good day and enjoy the entertainment or something along those lines.

Another time I was there they had a massive storm, including a tornado. I believe the Cowboys were playing in or up to the super bowl at that time? Anyways, the games going on there's a tornado nearby and I'm watching the flooding from my hotel room just gobsmacked. There was nowhere for the water to go, which I thought was an interesting infrastructure decision. Similar rains in Ontario (which I assume are far more frequent) don't cause the same issues, but then I don't think we get anywhere the number of tornadoes they do either. Our storm drain system is also completely different in configuration, which I've noticed varies significantly state-to-state.

I hate to say it, but I feel like Texas is "too big for their britches", assuming things like cold, tornados, etc wont ever affect them. The power grid decisions also seem to be almost ego-based.

I cant say my hometown is 100% better.....we watched a load of expensive waterfront houses get swept into the ocean during Sandy and Irene. How out-of-touch do you need to be to not have million+ dollar houses on stilts? Some of them even got wiped out in Sandy, started rebuilding and got wiped out again in Irene!

So everywhere you go its like people assume the best, then only after the worst happens do they prepare for it. Hopefully TX learned a lesson and people will be re-thinking their house designs and "bug out" preparations.
 

Pew

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IL
Another time I was there they had a massive storm, including a tornado. I believe the Cowboys were playing in or up to the super bowl at that time? Anyways, the games going on there's a tornado nearby and I'm watching the flooding from my hotel room just gobsmacked. There was nowhere for the water to go, which I thought was an interesting infrastructure decision. Similar rains in Ontario (which I assume are far more frequent) don't cause the same issues, but then I don't think we get anywhere the number of tornadoes they do either. Our storm drain system is also completely different in configuration, which I've noticed varies significantly state-to-state.

I was talking to one of our project managers in our who is also on his county's municipality board of directors in Texas about the planning, effects, and FEMA stuff of Hurricane Harvey and to sum it up: Texas' water drainage is horrible. I can't remember his reasoning. To me that seems weird for a location that does see frequent hurricane activities. That's like Illinois not being equipped to handle blizzards.
 

GON

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Have to ask.

Texas has been aware of the potential of this rare situation for two decades. I will pick a random number, $40 per month. If each Texas household paid $40 per month to reduce the likeliness of a system breakdown from a event that seems possible to happen once every 10 to 20 years, would Texans be wanting to pay for the increased likeliness their power will be available for a event that may happen once every 10 to 20 years?

$40 per month over twenty years = $11,520 per household.

Of course the above number is just pulled out of my fourth point of contact..... but redundancy and other means of supplemental or alternative power delivery comes with a cost, it is not free.
 
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Joined
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ct
Have to ask.

Texas has been aware of the potential of this rare situation for two decades. I will pick a random number, $40 per month. If each Texas household paid $40 per month to reduce the likeliness of a system breakdown from a event that seems possible to happen once every 10 to 20 years, would Texans be wanting to pay for the increased likeliness their power will be available for a event that may happen once every 10 to 20 years?

$40 per month over twenty years = $11,520 per household.

Of course the above number is just pulled out of my fourth point of contact..... but redundancy and other means of supplemental or alternative power delivery comes with a cost, it is not free.

We had a few bad storms last summer up here in CT....electricity was out for extended periods, for seemingly no reason and with no rhyme as to who had it and who didnt.

The utility companies are being held to the fire because they raised prices all these years in the name of "future proofing". Yet, not very far into the future, it was clear they were just pocketing the money. Then they actually tried to raise the price to push the cost onto customers! (much like we are hearing of $1000.00+ electric bills in TX). I hate it here in CT, but even our less-than-brilliant state government said uh-huh to that and is now forcing the utilities to pay up. Or at least they are making it LOOK like they are forcing it :)

Point being....raise the bill all you want, the chances its actually used what its supposed to be used for.....probably pretty nil. More profit is just too tempting to the greedy in charge.
 

Pew

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The utility companies are being held to the fire because they raised prices all these years in the name of "future proofing". Yet, not very far into the future, it was clear they were just pocketing the money.

Fun useless fact, my current job is in Arthur Andersen's Chicago former office/HQ.. Apparently after the Enron scandal they just up and left the next day with zero heads up so my company moved in with a 10-year-rent-free contract (~$35,000/month!). I'm pretty sure there's still some AA memorabilia around here somewhere.
 
Joined
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MA
Have to ask.

Texas has been aware of the potential of this rare situation for two decades. I will pick a random number, $40 per month. If each Texas household paid $40 per month to reduce the likeliness of a system breakdown from a event that seems possible to happen once every 10 to 20 years, would Texans be wanting to pay for the increased likeliness their power will be available for a event that may happen once every 10 to 20 years?

$40 per month over twenty years = $11,520 per household.

Of course the above number is just pulled out of my fourth point of contact..... but redundancy and other means of supplemental or alternative power delivery comes with a cost, it is not free.
I think you're way off with your numbers. El Paso winterized and said they spent $4.5 million to do so and they didn't have power outages. Another estimate was that it would cost 5% extra on the cost of the power plant. Considering that when I worked at a gas power plant where we were paid 2 cents a kilowatt in the winter which included the cost of the gas, you're talking about a very low additional price per kilowatt, probably hundredths or thousandths of a cent.
 
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Sorry, it's all about DNA. And the understanding of it, which animals - domestic, or wild - cannot comprehend.
Yeah, it's all DNA regardless of whether the subject at hand can comprehend it or not. Which includes some humans.
 
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Kentucky
Apart from this device in my hand, I live a very simple life. Wood cook stove, wood heat, gravity water from a spring, canned food from the garden and store bought. I just got my power on late yesterday. I still can't go anywhere since I live on a mountain and the road is still ice. I have plenty of kerosene for the lamps. I could easily go another month. I could probably go a couple more months if I had to.
I'm not a prepper of survivalist, I've just lived like this all my life. All that said, my heart goes out to all those who are suffering in Texas and other places. Left, right or independent, they are our fellow Americans and one of us suffers we all suffer.
 

GON

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I think you're way off with your numbers. El Paso winterized and said they spent $4.5 million to do so and they didn't have power outages. Another estimate was that it would cost 5% extra on the cost of the power plant. Considering that when I worked at a gas power plant where we were paid 2 cents a kilowatt in the winter which included the cost of the gas, you're talking about a very low additional price per kilowatt, probably hundredths or thousandths of a cent.
My number was pulled out of my fourth point of contact, which was disclosed in my post.

Having lived in El Paso (Ft Bliss) and Killeen (FT Hood), they are completely different terrain and environments. Using El Paso is not so good, and it is not representative of the terrain and environment of 90 percent of the population of Texas.

El Paso had a huge flood years ago and took steps to reduce the effect if a future flood from a once in a generation storm. But the steps cost nothing to the steps a city like Houston spends to address flooding from a Hurricane.

BTW- I was in Ft Lewis Friday night having dinner with a peer who works at FT Bliss. You are correct, El Paso did not have the issues at the levels others east of El Paso had.

Texas thrives for many reasons, one is the low cost of energy. To change the cost of energy in Texas to what residents of MA, IL, NY, NJ pay may not match for the residents of Texas or its business community.
 
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My number was pulled out of my fourth point of contact, which was disclosed in my post.

Having lived in El Paso (Ft Bliss) and Killeen (FT Hood), they are completely different terrain and environments. Using El Paso is not so good, and it is not representative of the terrain and environment of 90 percent of the population of Texas.

El Paso had a huge flood years ago and took steps to reduce the effect if a future flood from a once in a generation storm. But the steps cost nothing to the steps a city like Houston spends to address flooding from a Hurricane.

BTW- I was in Ft Lewis Friday night having dinner with a peer who works at FT Bliss. You are correct, El Paso did not have the issues at the levels others east of El Paso had.

Texas thrives for many reasons, one is the low cost of energy. To change the cost of energy in Texas to what residents of MA, IL, NY, NJ pay may not match for the residents of Texas or its business community.
How much more is electricity in El Paso vs the rest of Texas? They basically winterized and it cost them $4.5 million. It sounds like the cost to winterize won't be that much. I'm not sure what you mean by terrain and environment, wasn't the whole state along with several others in a deep freeze?

There's a lot of components that go into the price per kilowatt. Transmission is about half of it, the other half is the generation and half of that is probably the fuel when it comes to gas plants. If you're talking about a 5% increase in the cost of building a plant, you might really be talking about an increase of 1% in your bill to winterize if you amortize that over the average 20 year life span. Although I'm getting these numbers from the same source you use although some of my numbers are more grounded.

MA and other Northeast states have other reasons why their energy costs are so high. Mainly because most of it is imported. I remember buying natural gas from sources in New Mexico. You pay fees to transmit all that gas and there were pipeline constraints.
 

GON

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"" How much more is electricity in El Paso vs the rest of Texas? They basically winterized and it cost them $4.5 million. It sounds like the cost to winterize won't be that much. I'm not sure what you mean by terrain and environment, wasn't the whole state along with several others in a deep freeze?""

You might want to take a extended trip to Texas to understand.

Best I can explain without a deep drive, is that the cost to reduce the likeliness of pipes freezing in Key West, FL than it would be in Madison, FL (Northern Florida city near the Georgia border) is significantly different. My domicile is Anchorage, AK. Anchorage is a rainforest and has significantly different winters than Fairbanks, or Nome. Things I would do to promote electricity delivery in Achorage through a storm is very different than what actions to take in Fairbanks. The costs may be the same, or very different... but the mitigations steps to promote electric delivery during a act of god between Fairbanks and Anchorage are very different.

Comparing El Paso electric delivery to Houston electric delivery is not so feasible. They have very different terrain and population densities, and many other distinct differences.
 
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Best I can explain without a deep drive, is that the cost to reduce the likeliness of pipes freezing in Key West, FL than it would be in Madison, FL (Northern Florida city near the Georgia border) is significantly different. My domicile is Anchorage, AK. Anchorage is a rainforest and has significantly different winters than Fairbanks, or Nome. Things I would do to promote electricity delivery in Achorage through a storm is very different than what actions to take in Fairbanks. The costs may be the same, or very different... but the mitigations steps to promote electric delivery during a act of god between Fairbanks and Anchorage are very different.

Comparing El Paso electric delivery to Houston electric delivery is not so feasible. They have very different terrain and population densities, and many other distinct differences.
I'm not sure what points you're trying to make. Winterizing would be doing things like having oil on site so you can burn that in case you don't have gas available. In the northeast, they winterize the gas lines by having them buried below the frost line. You also have pumping stations that run on electricity to move the gas. Some of those froze outside in the elements. As I mentioned earlier, costs were mentioned to be about 5% of the construction cost. Typically you're at around 1 million a megawatt for power plant construction, I think gas plants are slightly less than that. The gas plant I was at was set up with a 20 year life span with costs amortized over that period. I'm sure it lasted longer than that. About 30 gigawatts was lost. If you use round numbers of 1 million a megawatt at 5% to winterize, whether by putting pipes underground or adding heating elements, or building oil tanks, you end up at 1.5 billion. Divide that by 20 years so 75 million a year. And 4 million lost power so that works out to about $18.75 a year or a tad over $1.50 a month. That's probably a better estimate than your $40 a month. If you want to pay for it all in one year, then yeah, probably $30 a month for a year to be winterized.
 

4WD

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I think some folks who think they build better have a basement which you will not find in Houston for a reason.
They build on a slab … and the earth moves there …
So even if the pipe is in one of the places left to put it … It can be insulated … and gas is reliable for home use.
I have owned four houses … none were all electric … somebody made that choice …
 
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