No way would I ever let those non-detergent oil comes close to any of my automobiles, not even my OPE engines, either in crankcase or mix with fuel.
They belong to the Smithsonian, IMO.
Q.
They belong to the Smithsonian, IMO.
Q.
Old old old 20W-20 Non Detergent motor oil
- Thread starter Rxman01
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No not Gulf. It's a brand never heard of... Harvest King. If I can attach a photo, I will.
Good air compressor oil
Originally Posted By: Papa Bear
Good air compressor oil
Yep. I'd use it in a heartbeat.
Good air compressor oil
Yep. I'd use it in a heartbeat.
I have a picture but how to add it???
If you know a farmer who has pre-1970's tractors, he could use it. I think it would work OK in an old Farmall, Case or IH tractor. Those one or two gallon cans will cost plenty to ship after an eBay sale. But for oil memorabilia, the empty cans may have as much value on eBay as the full cans.
Like this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-HARVEST-...=item1c483fad53
Like this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-HARVEST-...=item1c483fad53
You might be surprised what the stuff could sell for on eBay. Just put up a few cans a week til its all gone and make a nice tidy sum.
Originally Posted By: Michael_P
That oil probably has a much lower flash point than oils of today. It would make a great heating oil.
Check out the Blackstone reports that I linked to.
The 20W20, being basically straight oil of the appropriate KV100, has a very high flash point compared to a thinner basestock VIIed product.
That oil probably has a much lower flash point than oils of today. It would make a great heating oil.
Check out the Blackstone reports that I linked to.
The 20W20, being basically straight oil of the appropriate KV100, has a very high flash point compared to a thinner basestock VIIed product.
Originally Posted By: Bandito440
Do not put it in a modern crankcase. You're just diluting the important additives.
I agree. With that said, what if a qt. of ND was blended in with 4 qt. HDEO? Wouldn't the higher additives in HDEO balance out with one ND oil?
Do not put it in a modern crankcase. You're just diluting the important additives.
I agree. With that said, what if a qt. of ND was blended in with 4 qt. HDEO? Wouldn't the higher additives in HDEO balance out with one ND oil?
MolaKule
Staff member
Originally Posted By: gfh77665
Originally Posted By: Bandito440
Do not put it in a modern crankcase. You're just diluting the important additives.
I agree. With that said, what if a qt. of ND was blended in with 4 qt. HDEO? Wouldn't the higher additives in HDEO balance out with one ND oil?
Still not a good idea. You will get 32 oz of reduction in your total addtive ppms.
Use the 20W20 to coat outside tools, etc.
Originally Posted By: Bandito440
Do not put it in a modern crankcase. You're just diluting the important additives.
I agree. With that said, what if a qt. of ND was blended in with 4 qt. HDEO? Wouldn't the higher additives in HDEO balance out with one ND oil?
Still not a good idea. You will get 32 oz of reduction in your total addtive ppms.
Use the 20W20 to coat outside tools, etc.
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This question is akin (to me at least) to someone finding some 40+ year old cans of beans, and asking if they should be eaten. Some people say mix a little with some newer cans until it is all gone. Some say feed it to your grandfather since they were current when he was younger.
The rest of the voices say throw them out, they are 40+ years old.
The rest of the voices say throw them out, they are 40+ years old.
I think that example sums it up about perfectly.
Originally Posted By: kschachn
This question is akin (to me at least) to someone finding some 40+ year old cans of beans, and asking if they should be eaten. Some people say mix a little with some newer cans until it is all gone. Some say feed it to your grandfather since they were current when he was younger.
The rest of the voices say throw them out, they are 40+ years old.
Except those cans of beans can't fetch $30-40 each on eBay.
This question is akin (to me at least) to someone finding some 40+ year old cans of beans, and asking if they should be eaten. Some people say mix a little with some newer cans until it is all gone. Some say feed it to your grandfather since they were current when he was younger.
The rest of the voices say throw them out, they are 40+ years old.
Except those cans of beans can't fetch $30-40 each on eBay.
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Originally Posted By: Tabor
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
You might give it to someone who has an old-school mechanical injection diesel and they could use it in the fuel at about 5%.
I know some will say that this is bad practice, but there are many old Mercedes diesels being run on far worse, like WVO.
Why is this bad?
Ash deposits.
But it's non-detergent, so it should be low or no ash.
Originally Posted By: Tabor
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
You might give it to someone who has an old-school mechanical injection diesel and they could use it in the fuel at about 5%.
I know some will say that this is bad practice, but there are many old Mercedes diesels being run on far worse, like WVO.
Why is this bad?
Ash deposits.
But it's non-detergent, so it should be low or no ash.
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Originally Posted By: gfh77665
Originally Posted By: Bandito440
Do not put it in a modern crankcase. You're just diluting the important additives.
I agree. With that said, what if a qt. of ND was blended in with 4 qt. HDEO? Wouldn't the higher additives in HDEO balance out with one ND oil?
It would dilute the detergents by 20%, which is probably OK if the HDEO is very high in TBN to start with. Something like Delvac MX or Premium Blue Classic or even M1 0w40 starts out at about 12 TBN, so diluting it by 20% would still allow for a reasonable OCI.
Originally Posted By: Bandito440
Do not put it in a modern crankcase. You're just diluting the important additives.
I agree. With that said, what if a qt. of ND was blended in with 4 qt. HDEO? Wouldn't the higher additives in HDEO balance out with one ND oil?
It would dilute the detergents by 20%, which is probably OK if the HDEO is very high in TBN to start with. Something like Delvac MX or Premium Blue Classic or even M1 0w40 starts out at about 12 TBN, so diluting it by 20% would still allow for a reasonable OCI.
Good stuff for air compressors. Keep some for use, some for display, and eBay the rest.
Thanks for all the ideas and opinions. Glad to have some input from all around.
Not to sound ungrateful for your ideas, and I do like the analogy to the beans, but the beans were not beans 1 million years ago --but the oil was oil a million years ago.
Now how about thinking about this critically:
my 90 year old father (1942 graduate of Automotive trade school) said
"... it was in the earth for millions of years, what the heck is 40 years in a can compared to that? ..."
On the surface he is right...
The base oil came from the earth and is XX million years old. So if Pennzoil et al takes some of it and puts some additives into it, then its great for your engine. But if you leave the additives out it is poison to the same engine.
As a chemist, I understand the value of just a few ppb and I fully understand the chemistry and dilution principles involved.
But as a consumer I know that no matter what I do, even if we all use the best oil we can buy, many of our cars will meeet their demise (stolen,wrecked, flood, fire,etc) long before the engines wear out.
Anyhow, being monetarily challenged right now, I thought I would use the oil a bit with each oil change thereby saving the $5.00 or so that oil costs per quart.
I cannot beleive that the balance of the detergents (and the other additives in oil) are so precisely measured that a small (~ 20 % w/v) difference would make itself known.
I guess what I'm saying is if Mobil 1 and Castrol Edge, Royal Purple, Pennzoil Ultra all are within 20% on every additive then I would be really surprised.
When I get a minute I will look uop the assay results so I'm speaking on fact but if they dont differentiate themselves in at least one area then thay are not trying to compete.
Sincere Thanks to all again,
I hope you dont look at my post as argumentattive, just trying to stir some converstaion.
Not to sound ungrateful for your ideas, and I do like the analogy to the beans, but the beans were not beans 1 million years ago --but the oil was oil a million years ago.
Now how about thinking about this critically:
my 90 year old father (1942 graduate of Automotive trade school) said
"... it was in the earth for millions of years, what the heck is 40 years in a can compared to that? ..."
On the surface he is right...
The base oil came from the earth and is XX million years old. So if Pennzoil et al takes some of it and puts some additives into it, then its great for your engine. But if you leave the additives out it is poison to the same engine.
As a chemist, I understand the value of just a few ppb and I fully understand the chemistry and dilution principles involved.
But as a consumer I know that no matter what I do, even if we all use the best oil we can buy, many of our cars will meeet their demise (stolen,wrecked, flood, fire,etc) long before the engines wear out.
Anyhow, being monetarily challenged right now, I thought I would use the oil a bit with each oil change thereby saving the $5.00 or so that oil costs per quart.
I cannot beleive that the balance of the detergents (and the other additives in oil) are so precisely measured that a small (~ 20 % w/v) difference would make itself known.
I guess what I'm saying is if Mobil 1 and Castrol Edge, Royal Purple, Pennzoil Ultra all are within 20% on every additive then I would be really surprised.
When I get a minute I will look uop the assay results so I'm speaking on fact but if they dont differentiate themselves in at least one area then thay are not trying to compete.
Sincere Thanks to all again,
I hope you dont look at my post as argumentattive, just trying to stir some converstaion.
I don't think it is so much a matter of the oil becoming unsuitable for use, so much as it has become unsuitable for use in anything of current manufacture.
if you had an old care that called for that grade of oil, it's likely just fine to use.
I think, however, you would get much more good from it by selling the cans on ebay and using the proceeds to purchase whatever oil you want.
I would be willing to guess that you could buy two quarts of whatever you want from the sale of one quart of these.
I was actually going to PM you and try to buy a can.
I LOVE unopened and full old oil cans. great piece of history.
if you'd sell one, I'd be willing to buy one.
if you had an old care that called for that grade of oil, it's likely just fine to use.
I think, however, you would get much more good from it by selling the cans on ebay and using the proceeds to purchase whatever oil you want.
I would be willing to guess that you could buy two quarts of whatever you want from the sale of one quart of these.
I was actually going to PM you and try to buy a can.
I LOVE unopened and full old oil cans. great piece of history.
if you'd sell one, I'd be willing to buy one.
Originally Posted By: Rxman01
I cannot beleive that the balance of the detergents (and the other additives in oil) are so precisely measured that a small (~ 20 % w/v) difference would make itself known.
I guess what I'm saying is if Mobil 1 and Castrol Edge, Royal Purple, Pennzoil Ultra all are within 20% on every additive then I would be really surprised.
I appreciate your question. Its good discussion and how we all learn.
I think some comments from above indicate that if you DID mix it 1 qt at a time, and use higher additive HDEO, you would safely be in the ball park additive wise.
I realize its not absolutely "optimal", but it is OK.
Personally I would sell all I can and then blend off the rest.
I cannot beleive that the balance of the detergents (and the other additives in oil) are so precisely measured that a small (~ 20 % w/v) difference would make itself known.
I guess what I'm saying is if Mobil 1 and Castrol Edge, Royal Purple, Pennzoil Ultra all are within 20% on every additive then I would be really surprised.
I appreciate your question. Its good discussion and how we all learn.
I think some comments from above indicate that if you DID mix it 1 qt at a time, and use higher additive HDEO, you would safely be in the ball park additive wise.
I realize its not absolutely "optimal", but it is OK.
Personally I would sell all I can and then blend off the rest.
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