Old Honda PS Prolems

[Lead Shoes]

The problem is the hose fittings are leaking a tad, about a few ounces every 1000 miles. I have been adding Prestone Honda/Acura fluid and the cold pour has to be atrocious. It has been VERY cold in MN these last few weeks. -30 windchill has been rough on it, when I added fluid it was like pudding at those temps from my trunk, the pump is so stiff it nearly doesn't allow my car to start from the fluid thickness and intermittently works until 10 mins of running time and smells like burnt rubber probably from belt slipping on start.

I believe this is the original 270k mile pump as well. Before I cut the belt and roll like every other Honda I've owned I figured I would consult the forums to see what PSF I can use in the pump to limp it along in the cold but not kill it, PS is nice and id rather not lose it if I have a choice.

I'd sooner cut the belt then pay 6 dollars per 12 oz at the Honda dealer.

 

[yonyon]

You don't have to cut the belt off to go cheap. Buy a gallon of whatever "synthetic" ATF is cheap near you and add just a touch of your favorite seal sweller. That should keep you in easy steering until springtime when you can fix the leak more easily.

 

[Tegger]

Originally Posted By: Brenden
I'd sooner cut the belt then pay 6 dollars per 12 oz at the Honda dealer.

I don't understand people like you, willing to damage your car for the sake of a few dollars savings.

The only correct fluid is Genuine Honda PS fluid. The use of any other fluid will damage your system and cause stiff steering in cold weather. Exactly what's happening to you now.

You can't fix the leaks and pump noise that you've caused by using the wrong fluid, but you can fix the hard steering in cold weather. How? By paying the dealer their exorbitant few dollars for their correct steering fluid.

 

[Lead Shoes]

The pump has 265k miles of likely neglect that I had no part of, the change of fluid cannot be the 100% sure cause of failure it was on its way out the door when I bought it.I don't live anywhere near a dealer either atm.

Hard to understand me? I'm just looking for a fix for cold flow atm, I can get another pump and fittings for $40 and do it in 2hrs if I do it slow. Its too cold, hardly care (besides the hard starting), $1500 car, its whatever.

OEM or bust is the most boring mentality ever to empty your wallet. By that logic the 212k D16 civic PS pump I used prestone in for 20k that also worked fine in these temps must have been a miracle all last season. If we all bought OEM fluid and parts there would be no BITOG.

I'm going to treat this like an experiment of sorts, obviously I should replace the pump and let the dealer give it to me 12" deep this week but I wont, that's not how I roll or the spirit of this hobby.

 

[davglt]

I have a 2003 Accord and the Honda fluid was still flowing fine when it was 2 degrees when I checked it a week ago. Should not be like pudding. My car has 258,000 and no issues, change the fluid every 50,000, pull the hose and pump it out.

 

[Lead Shoes]

It was more like the consistency of pouring cold maple syrup honestly.

 

[vssjim]

IWe use the StaLube CRC brand of honda fluid and have for years and it works well and has for years

 

[redhat]

Maybe one of the Lubegard PS additives can help you out?

 

[antiqueshell]

As long as the product is a major name (prestone is fine) and specifically states "For Honda/Acura" you should have no issues. Are you sure you are using the dedicated For Honda/Acura version. Prestone also has a similar product that is "For Imports" and that is NOT the same and should NEVER be used in a Honda. Bardhal also makes a dedicated Honda/Acura only fluid maybe try that.

While the viscosity might be a bit higher when very cold it should not cause what you are saying. It sounds to me like your pump is on its way out. At 265k the unit has gone far beyond its intended lifespan.

 

[Tegger]

Originally Posted By: Brenden
Hard to understand me? I'm just looking for a fix for cold flow atm,

This is what it says in the Honda shop manuals for your cars:
"CAUTION: Use only GENUINE HONDA Power Steering Fluid.
Using other fluids such as ATF or other manufacturer's
power steering fluid will damage the system."

Notice it does not say MAY damage, but WILL damage.

In later manuals the caution is added that incorrect fluid will cause poor steering in cold weather. That means stiffness, exactly what you're experiencing.

The system takes 1.3 pints. That means you need $12 worth of fluid, hardly a bank-breaking amount. It's really amusing to me that you may end up spending many times $12 doing your experimentation without fixing anything at all, just on the bizarre principle that OEM is dull and overpriced.

OEM may be dull and overpriced, but at almost 415,000 miles my Integra's original power steering system was working 100% like new when I sold the car, which was well-worth the $12 I spent on Genuine Honda fluid the two or three times I changed it.

 

[Lead Shoes]

We love you and your 400k teg. Just because you had a beautiful long term owned Integra and rode her to 400k doesn't make your follow OEM 100% word solid gold every time.

I said already I can buy a new pump for my home brewed built DA which is hardly OEM anymore for $20. I refuse to order online and pay out the nose/drive 120 miles one way for some Honda PSF. I run into at least 2 of these B series pumps per pull a part visit in general they are not hard to find.

When it's leaking out fluid randomly like a freshman leaning in the urinal at the dorms... its not worth saving, THIS IS PURELY A BITOG WHAT IF EXPERIMENT.

THIS IS NOT. I REPEAT NOT AN EXPENSIVE CAR. I DO NOT NEED PS I JUST WOULD LIKE IT TO LAST TILL SPRING AND EXPERIMENT.

If anyone has anything informative to my question besides "OEM" or go home, please post I'm over the general forum mentality and the OEM cult, it's nearly as bad as the Pennzoil fan club lately.

 

[901Memphis]

Royal Purple or GM cold climate psf if this is just an experiment.

 

[kschachn]

A few ounces every 1000 miles is more than "a tad", especially for a PS system. It appears you care for your cars considering you have kept them this long and have even done an engine swap on the older one. Which hose fittings are leaking? The flares at the rack or the replaceable crush washers on the banjo fittings? I realize it is cold but why not fix it?

The Honda fluid is not just for the pump but also for the seals in the rack. Is the rack leaking? I also don't know what the pour point difference is between the generic fluids you have been using and the OEM fluid, but my Honda does not complain even when well below zero. -30 wind chill is irrelevant for a car of course, it only depends on the actual air temperature. If there is a smell of burnt rubber for 10 minutes then something else is going on. That isn't right.

You can buy OEM fluid online for less than most dealers. OTOH seeing how you would "rather not lose it", I vote for fixing the leak and flushing out the generic fluid with the proper stuff.

However, since you have already put up the wall of not wanting to hear "use OEM fluid" then I am planning on you ignoring this advice. None of my cars are expensive cars either. But money spent on repairs makes the difference between a $1200 car with something broken and a $1200 car with it working.

Originally Posted By: Brenden
The problem is the hose fittings are leaking a tad, about a few ounces every 1000 miles. I have been adding Prestone Honda/Acura fluid and the cold pour has to be atrocious. It has been VERY cold in MN these last few weeks. -30 windchill has been rough on it, when I added fluid it was like pudding at those temps from my trunk, the pump is so stiff it nearly doesn't allow my car to start from the fluid thickness and intermittently works until 10 mins of running time and smells like burnt rubber probably from belt slipping on start.

I believe this is the original 270k mile pump as well. Before I cut the belt and roll like every other Honda I've owned I figured I would consult the forums to see what PSF I can use in the pump to limp it along in the cold but not kill it, PS is nice and id rather not lose it if I have a choice.

I'd sooner cut the belt then pay 6 dollars per 12 oz at the Honda dealer.

 

[Tegger]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
my Honda does not complain even when well below zero.

The coldest my PS pump ever had to work in was -22F. On that occasion cranking was very slow and the engine fired up unevenly at first, but the PS pump worked just fine, with no belt-squealing or rubber-burning. Steering was a little stiff for the first few minutes, but still much lighter than the manually-steered Corolla I had previously.

OE sure is dull: It keeps working when nothing else does. Set it and forget it.

 

[cptbarkey]

i would disable the belt now if possible, and wait till spring and fix it right. it shouldnt cost that much if you are going to DIY it with a new pump / hoses / lines. might as well check the entire steering rack for leaks, and the boots as well while your at it.

 

[Kool1]

The Honda power steering fluid in my CRV turned really dark at about 100,000 miles. I did the turkey baster method of removing most of the fluid and replaced it with Bardahl power steering fluid made for Hondas. After only 25,000 miles the fluid turned dark again. I then again used the turkey baster and removed as much of the fluid as possible and replaced it with Honda power steering fluid. I know the Honda fluid is expensive and I hate giving money for dealer stuff but I bit the bullet and did it. I now have over 25,000 miles on the Honda power steering fluid and its still clear color. I don't want to endorse Honda power steering fluid but it didn't turn dark in color like the Bardahl power steering fluid did.

 

[Lead Shoes]

Its filled with 1/3 OEM fluid and the rest by Prestone Honda/Acura the new bottle design as well from walmart. And the rubber smell is from the pump being so hard to turn over that the belt slips randomly on cold starts, I confirmed it by starting it and watching the pulley.

 

[Tegger]

Originally Posted By: Brenden
And the rubber smell is from the pump being so hard to turn over that the belt slips randomly on cold starts

The ONLY way you can confirm the problem is to drain the fluid in the correct manner (NOT the turkey baster!), remove the belt and spin the pump by hand. The pump should spin freely and smoothly, without any binding or other hitches. It should be about as hard to turn as a new water pump.

If the pump is binding so badly that it's difficult to turn, one of the plungers may be stuck. I'm not sure it's possible to stick the plungers without using the wrong fluid.

Trav, any help here?

 

[strat81]

I run Prestone Honda/Acura PSF in my CR-V. Works great, even down to -10*F.


Brenden, if you want to experiment, maybe try some Lubegard Power Steering Protectant. They claim it can turn any PSF into Honda-compatible fluid. Add that to the PSF of your choice - maybe check the data sheets to see if you can find one that is on the thin side.

Of course, maybe the pump is just toast. If a bearing or something is shot, any fluid may not work well.

I use the Lubegard PSF additive in my Buick Rainier. Helped quiet down a noise pump and made the steering effort a little lighter.

 

[antiqueshell]

@Brenden:

While I don't want to seem like a fanboi I must give credit where it is due. Tegger is the quite expert on anything Honda/Acura related and if he recommends or suggests something you can bet it is good, accurate advice, that should be seriously considered.

While I don't subscribe to the OEM only fluids recommendation most the the time, the case of Honda PS performing BEST with factory fluid is very accurate, not only that but just as critically if those seals in the rack are designed with a specific fluid in mind using a fluid that is not recommended will most likely result in leaks.

I still say that you CAN use the Prestone or Bardahl
"For Honda" PS fluid with reasonable results you may experience stiffer steering in extremely cold weather below 10F at least your seals will not be compromised.