Oils that contain moly

[Patman]

I was wondering if we could compile a quick list of all the oils that contain moly in it, and if possible, how much each contains? The only ones I know of for sure that contain moly are Redline Schaeffers (did I spell that right?) Maxlife Pennzoil High Mileage Did someone say that Mobil 1 15w50 contained moly as well? Who else?

 

[msparks]

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Originally posted by Patman: I was wondering if we could compile a quick list of all the oils that contain moly in it, and if possible, how much each contains? The only ones I know of for sure that contain moly are Redline Schaeffers (did I spell that right?) Maxlife Pennzoil High Mileage Did someone say that Mobil 1 15w50 contained moly as well? Who else?

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I think that syntec contains a bit too. At least my oil analysis indicated so when I was running it on my F150.

 

[widman]

Excellent idea. But let's remember that in used oil analysis, I believe some of the Moly that shows up can be from worn rings.

 

[Patman]

I sent Mobil 1 an email this morning (and got a very quick response back!) as I had asked them if they have moly in their oils. The answer isn't 100% clear as to whether all of the viscosities have it, or just the 15w50 though. Here is their response (and my question to them)

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Mobil1 does contain very small amount of moly but not enough in the Mobil1 15W50 to affect wet clutches in motorcycle applications. Mobil recommends that you take the oil to the high limit in the owner's manual or once a year which ever comes first. Mobil1 does have superior capabilities to protect your vehicle beyond 7,500 miles so once you are out of warranty that is your choice. [email protected] wrote: > I heard that the new SuperSyn 15w50 contains some molybdenum in it, is this true? Do any of the other viscosities contain this? > > Also, I am out of my warranty period, can I safely do 10k oil intervals with Mobil 1? What about 15k?

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[BOBISTHEOILGUY]

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very small amount of moly but not enough in the Mobil1 15W50 to affect wet clutches in motorcycle applications

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Moly does not affect clutches as it only has an ifinity to metal only and not clutch material. Reline, Torco mpz, and Schaeffers all have moly of varying degree amounts and none have any adverse effect on clutches. I also have ship boats using the moly oil in the PTO systems, again no problem with clutches.

 

[dragboat]

Patman, I believe a list is a good idea but dadgum will that list be a good resource tomorrow? It seems near every week something has changed,,tough to keep up with! At least it is for me, He He

 

[Patman]

Hehe, it's true, oils are changing so fast it's hard to keep up. But keep reading this forum, we'll do our best to stay on top of things! I will say this about Mobil 1, they are very fast at answering emails! And enthusiastic too! Here is my latest reply from them:

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All Mobil1 motor oils do contain small amounts of moly and you are right moly is an excellent anti-wear additive. The only problem is that too much moly in a motor oil causes the moly to settle to the bottom of the engine or the crankcase and it can cause excessive oil oxidation. Mobil1 fortunately has its own proprietary blend of synthetic anti-wear package that offers much better wear protection without any of the adverse effects that moly, phosphorous, and zinc can attribute to a motor oil. That is why Nothing Out Performs Mobil1!!!

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[Chris]

Honda specifically says no moly in my owners manual. CBR600F3.

 

[BOBISTHEOILGUY]

I love a good laugh once in awhile.

 

[sprintman]

Bob/Terry, Re Mobils reply to Patman re Moly settling in the oil pan and causing excessive oxidation. I remember one of you saying Redline has lots of moly, and either oxidation or nitration problem(damned if I can find that post). Is Mobils response correct?

 

[BOBISTHEOILGUY]

Lets look at this response and maybe you'll understand my amusement.

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All Mobil1 motor oils do contain small amounts of moly and you are right moly is an excellent anti-wear additive

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Really now... Ok, take note about SMALL amount used.. now the next statement..

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problem is that too much moly in a motor oil causes the moly to settle to the bottom of the engine or the crankcase and it can cause excessive oil oxidation

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Hmmmm, So are you saying that a small amount of moly wont settle down to the bottom? How is it that if moly seperates from the base oil, what does it do to make the oil oxidize? Is it reactive chemically?

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Mobil1 fortunately has its own proprietary blend of synthetic anti-wear package that offers much better wear protection without any of the adverse effects that moly , phosphorous, and zinc can attribute to a motor oil.

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Oh really? Now why use a little and not any since you already have such a high end proprietary antiwear package the out perfoms moly??? hmmmm Sprintman, I cannot talk for redline as I have limited knowledge to their product but I suspect that this is not true with them and I also looked at maxlife for this as well and saw no evidence of moly seperating to the bottom either. As for Schaeffers, there is no seperation and this is one of many standard answers from other companies that wont' or don't use moly as they have to come up with excuse to make a weak spot out of the stong points of other lubricants. This exuse has been the standard response from a long time ago when it was true that moly would seperate and at that time was more in a solid form and not like today where it is now a suspended additive. They really need to update their standarized response sheets.

 

[Al]

Bob: What would be the downside of using the #132 moly in Mobil 1? Also does Shaeffers have a full synthetic PAO other than 5W-30. (#156) I really prefer 10W-30.

 

[BOBISTHEOILGUY]

Ok Al, Here is my thoughts and recommendations about the 132 ep additive treatment.. It is thick like STP oil treatment, So I would never advise anyone to use it in every oil drain as I have tried it and found if you do that, it will produce a much heavier oil from excessive residual and cause the oil flow properties not to flow as designed until it warms up. That is the downside. The upside... Everything it states on the techdata sheet is true from what I've seen. It produces some excellent results with the above drawback. If memory serves, some on edmunds ordered some and should be able to express their opinions as well. Schaeffers does not make any other full synth motor oil and the one you mentioned is not an api certified oil. I personally have never sold one drop of Schaeffers full synth oil as in all my experiences with Schaeffers blends, they have perfomed exceptionally well in wear protection as well as extended drains and has been proven from actual real time applications experiences, crossing from farming industry to heavy industrial equipment well over the last 50+yrs with the use of analysis.. I know it's a real hard thing for many to believe that a blend could actually do as well as it does but as many are finding out for themselves through actuall use and analysis it is possible.

 

[Al]

Thanks for the info Bob. I haven't yed decided on the #132 but I have the local guy checking on the availability of the Syn. He did not realize they made the product. I believe you about the quality of the blend. Its just that I can't bring my self to use other than pure syn. Logic be damned!! Anyway it should be interesting to get oil analysis results with this product. I then will have a comparison with the TriSyn, SuperSyn and Shaeffers and perhaps a Supersyn with some #132. And yes I realize you can not hang your hat on only 1 analysis. Unfortunately I'm 56 years old and when I find the Holy Grai, I'll be 6' under. I'll give your advice more thought though. Al

 

[MolaKule]

In all of techinal info I have read to-date, the Molybdenum Tricarbomate that is currently used as friction and anti-wear modifiers DOES NOT settle out and oxidize. The MDTC stays in solution until it reacts with the sulphonates of the Detergents and forms a MOS2 or MOS3 (organometallic) film on the metal which acts as a barrier lubricant. Now ZDDP does the same thing, except it forms a zinc sulfate or zinc phosphate film. I have to agree with Bob on this one, Mobile is speaking out both sides of its mouth and is apparently using data from the 60's when some moly's were simply moly powders in suspension. Remember, there IS a difference between a "suspension" and a "solution."

 

[Bror Jace]

I'll add my suspicions to Mobil's answer. I have heard that Mobil puts moly in their motorcycle oils but that's it. I remember Bob put some SuperSyn on his timken machine and he couldn't get it to "plate-up" which would have indicated the presence of moly. I just used some Red Line 5W30 which has a LOT of moly in it (500+ ppm) and when I drained the bottles to the last drop, there was no visible residue on the bottom of any of the bottles. Keep in mind that the bottles sat on the shelf motionless for about 1 month before I used the stuff. If anything would settle, you'd think it would have settled then and not in a car that moves nearly every day. Besides, any moly that is "soluble" should not settle out at all. A suspended solid could settle out under the right circumstances. Back to the original question, don't forget Liqui-Moly (in Europe) and I would suspect that some Motul formulas would have moly in them as well. Any lab result which shows molybdenum levels at 20ppm or less is most likely from ring wear.

 

[satterfi]

Torco MPZ has about 700 ppm Mo content. Honda HP-4M has about 670 ppm Mo. Suzuki branded oil has about 500 ppm. I've seen info that metal composition clutches in motorcycles might slip with Mo in the oil while sintered fiber discs are immune. Moly containing oils seem to have smoothed out the shifting of gears in my Honda VTR. My Suzuki shifts so smooth it doesn't need the extra help Mo can give.

 

[dragboat]

Satterfi, I see where Suzuki Bandit 1200 owners have had trouble when using the Suzuki brand oil. Messes with the ring package as in it gunks them up. [ September 29, 2002, 08:30 AM: Message edited by: BOBISTHEOILGUY ]

 

[satterfi]

I know very little about Suzuki oil. My Suzuki bike gets Mobil 1 15-50w. Overkill, I'm sure. It calls for 10-40w like all Japanese sport bikes with no distinction between dino or syn oils.

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Originally posted by dragboat: Satterfi, I see where Suzuki Bandit 1200 owners have had trouble when using the Suzuki brand oil. Messes with the ring package as in it gunks them up.

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[ September 29, 2002, 08:29 AM: Message edited by: BOBISTHEOILGUY ]

 

[jjbula]

Patman, Looks like Castrol GTX 5W30 SL has moly. Just got this analysis back from Terry. Wear numbers were good too. I have posted in oil analysis element in ppm / comment moly-------63----normal additive for castrol [ July 06, 2002, 08:41 AM: Message edited by: jjbula ]