oils NOT to use
- Thread starter Pee Wee
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IMHO.....There aren't really any "bad" SL rated oils. Some just stand out from the crowd.
Based on what I have seen from VOAs and UOAs at this web site, I agree that I would not even consider using Valvoline. At least not until they improve the additive package and the base oil.
Of course, other oils not to use include SA and SB rated oils.
For me, for various reasons, the one conventional oil that stands out and really looks good is Chevron (or Halvoline which is probably about the same thing).
Shaeffer's oil really stands out as excellent also.
I am not sure I really have a favorite synthetic oil because it seems like every one has had something negative pointed out about it here. But hard to beat Mobil 1 in the wintertime. Or maybe Chevron 0W-30 if you could find some.
Of course, other oils not to use include SA and SB rated oils.
For me, for various reasons, the one conventional oil that stands out and really looks good is Chevron (or Halvoline which is probably about the same thing).
Shaeffer's oil really stands out as excellent also.
I am not sure I really have a favorite synthetic oil because it seems like every one has had something negative pointed out about it here. But hard to beat Mobil 1 in the wintertime. Or maybe Chevron 0W-30 if you could find some.
It hurts to see fine old names like Valvoline and Fram not putting up as good as numbers as many others.
[ May 14, 2004, 10:23 AM: Message edited by: labman ]
[ May 14, 2004, 10:23 AM: Message edited by: labman ]
If you spend some time looking around this site, you can easily discover that all SL oils are made to at least the minimum API standard. With that in mind there are certainly some dino oils that are designed to only meet the minimum and others that try to exceed the minimum. I would tend to stay away from oils that only seek to meet the minimum. There are some really good bargains out there where you can get a good dino oil at a great price.
Bargain dino oils: (in my opinion)
Havoline
Chevron Supreme
Motorcraft
Bargain dino oils: (in my opinion)
Havoline
Chevron Supreme
Motorcraft
There aren't any SL-rated oils that I wouldn't use to top up a quart on a road trip. Or SH or SJ for that matter - remember that these oils were "state of the art" just a few years ago.
However, given the broad choices we have at any parts store or Wally World, I'd avoid Valvoline and Formula Shell for their weak additive packs.
MR
However, given the broad choices we have at any parts store or Wally World, I'd avoid Valvoline and Formula Shell for their weak additive packs.
MR
If you are a self-proclaimed "oil guru", you would never use any no-name, off-name, store-name brand of oil, or .99 cent convenience store oil.
As far as the Castrol comment...we need to get off the soap box. Synthetic oils in N.A. include Group III, IV and V oils. All are very good.
As far as the Castrol comment...we need to get off the soap box. Synthetic oils in N.A. include Group III, IV and V oils. All are very good.
1986 SAAB Turbo Convt, 250K miles nothing but Valvoline 10w-30 "Turbo Approved" dino oil every 7500 miles and not a single turbo or engine problem and this is an oil-cooled turbo not water like now. Just had it out last weekend with the top down and boost up. "Turbo Approved" was what Valvoline had on their oil bottle back in the 80's and early 90's now it is just 10w-30.
OK, I'm going to chase you all over this board when you badmouth Castrol.
I think your definition of a fair price is flawed. It's really about the price the market will support. Selling price is not normally linked directly to the production costs. Now if someone denies or hampers access to the market, that's another discussion. Since there are lots of oil choices, consumers can pick the Wal*Mart oil, Castrol, or whatever. Your choice.
Another fact you must have that I don't is how much does Castrol (BP) charge for its Syntec product? Now I know what AutoZone charges, but what does Castrol (BP) charge? You see, your old friend Wal*Mart doesn't price solely based on product costs either.
Jack
I was using Castrol Syntec last year.
But since discovering this fine site,
I switched to Mobil 1 in my BMW. Here
in Canada, Castrol is priced the same
as Valvoline,Quaker State,Pennzoil at
.50 cents less than Mobil 1.
But since discovering this fine site,
I switched to Mobil 1 in my BMW. Here
in Canada, Castrol is priced the same
as Valvoline,Quaker State,Pennzoil at
.50 cents less than Mobil 1.
Ahhhh, the chase continues. Sure, market force should have a role too. If Brand-X came up with an oil that cost twenty-five cents per quart to make, never needed to be changed, and preserved engines up to a million miles, I'd agree that a market-driven performance premium would be justified.
In this instance, Castrol quietly replaced an expensive PAO with a relatively cheap G-III, continued to represent it as the same thing ("full synthetic oil"), and continued to charge the PAO price. As to market support, I think if the majority of customers who make up this market really knew what Castrol had done, demand for the product at its present price would evaporate faster than a cheap Group-I in an overheated Porsche. Castrol knows this, hence the deceptive marketing strategy.
BTW, in the stores where I lurk, the G-III versions of Syntec (all but GC; I've never seen the Belgian 5w-40) are marked at the same price as Mobil-1, except in a store or two where it goes for a dime or so more than the PAO Mobil.
[ May 14, 2004, 02:39 PM: Message edited by: ekpolk ]
Something else just occurred to me (duh...). In fairness, this may not be completely Castrol's fault (althought they're far from off the hook in my mind). If some stores are selling it for a bit less than M-1 while others are at the same level and a couple above, then plainly, RETAILER'S pricing strategy is having an effect too.
Wanna bet? I'm using SuperTech synthetic blend (made by Warren Dist) in my van right now. Seems to be doing fine. And unlike every "big name" oil I've tried (including Mobil 1), this SuperTech oil had absolutely no sediment in the bottom of the bottle. I'm not sure that means anything, but the only other oil I've ever seen that was this clean is the Quaker State synthetics and syn blends that are in the clear bottles.
That dog won't hunt. There is nothing "cheap" about Shell's XHVI base oil, which is what Castrol initially went to in place of Mobil's PAO. The difference in cost to produce a wax isomerate like XHVI and PAO is only pennies. And it was rumored at the time that one of the motivating factors behind Castrol's decision to switch was a price increase by Mobil for the neat PAO. (That puts Mobil's "complaint" to the NAD about Castrol's use of the term "synthetic" in a little different light doesn't it? Mobil loses one of its biggest clients for PAO because of a price increase, so they decide to make things difficult for Castrol with a complaint to the NAD. They no doubt thought that had the NAD ruled in their favor, Castrol would have come back with hat in hand to purchase PAO since they wouldn't be able to sell a Group III based Syntec as "full synthetic.")
The oils I would not use (major brands):
Castrol
Quaker State
Valvoline
On Castrol in general, I'm with davefr
Castrol will never get a single dime from me. Why would I use any version of Castrol Syntec when there is Mobil 1? I'm not saying Syntec is a bad product, what I am saying is that I think Castrol is a bad company.
To each his own, use whatever you please. I am just giving my reasons for the oils I would not use.
[ May 14, 2004, 03:04 PM: Message edited by: mracer ]
Castrol
Quaker State
Valvoline
On Castrol in general, I'm with davefr
Castrol will never get a single dime from me. Why would I use any version of Castrol Syntec when there is Mobil 1? I'm not saying Syntec is a bad product, what I am saying is that I think Castrol is a bad company.
To each his own, use whatever you please. I am just giving my reasons for the oils I would not use.
[ May 14, 2004, 03:04 PM: Message edited by: mracer ]
I use it because it's BMW LongLife certified and Mobil 1 isn't. You see a lot of difference between BP and ExxonMobil and I don't.
Jack
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