Oils Analysis' are in the "Noise Floor"

Status
Not open for further replies.
Russ is what we would call a "drive by" troll. He just pops in, makes a post that is guaranteed to cause trouble, then he disappears off into the night.
rolleyes.gif
 
Out of all the oils analysis results on this board that I have seen, 99% are in the so called "noise floor" and show no benefit to any of the oils, even synthetics. If someone says that 5 ppm is any better than 20 ppm, they are fantasizng. These numbers are in the statisical noise floor of the measurements. Now if you see consistent high numbers from one oil, say in the 100-200 ppm range, than you can start to draw a trend.
As for me, I agree with Patman, the QS 10year/250K warrany has got more merits than any of the other oils out there. I will be switching over at my next oil change.
Worrying about 5 ppm of lead or copper vs. 20 ppm has no benefit.
Just my $.02 worth
 
Once again Russ, what is your point
dunno.gif
It seems like all you have done since you joined the board is criticize the members, and things that we talk about. You criticized Bob's oil filter test, you called us all board addicts on your last post and now you are basically saying that all of our UOAs are a waste of time.
thumbsdown.gif
Go hang out on some other board if you are going to be this way
thumbsdown.gif


[ January 12, 2004, 01:01 PM: Message edited by: Shadow ]
 
Russ, I somewhat agree. Most oils get the job done, however I'm not convinced that a uoa can tell me the total state on engine cleanliness.

I have never had wear related problems, only problems related to sludge and varnish buildup.

IMHO, wear is not the only issue.
 
What's the point of senseless name-calling? If the man irritates you, ignore him. I figured he's just provoking discussion at worst. But, if he really is playing head games here, without a response, he'll go away soon enough.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Ray H:
What's the point of senseless name-calling? If the man irritates you, ignore him. I figured he's just provoking discussion at worst. But, if he really is playing head games here, without a response, he'll go away soon enough.

The problem is that every post he's made is basically insulting our intelligence on here. His very first post when he got here was to attack Bob's filter testing. That got him started off on the wrong foot big time!!
mad.gif
 
As a very new member, but one who has read the board for a while, one thing I've noticed is that there are lots of differing opinions posted. Why attack this one? IMO some folks are a little too touchy. Seems to me that a little diversity of opinion is good. Makes us think!
 
quote:

Originally posted by Mal:
As a very new member, but one who has read the board for a while, one thing I've noticed is that there are lots of differing opinions posted. Why attack this one? IMO some folks are a little too touchy. Seems to me that a little diversity of opinion is good. Makes us think!

You are correct, but a big part of the problem is that Russ makes these posts, but then doesn't stick around to further defend his position at all. And yes, we definitely do like to have differing opinions around here, but it just seems like all of his posts are disguised as subtle attacks against all of us on here, like he is somehow better than all of us. UOAs are a huge part of this site, so for someone to come on here and basically tell us (if you read between the lines) that we're all idiots for believing when we see lower ppm in our reports, it just doesn't sit well with us.
 
I appreciate what you're saying. I've really learned a lot from all of you about oil, filters, etc. While I'm not a professional car guy, just someone interested in his cars and their well being, it's really educational to hear all the expertise here. Like so many things, I listen and then do what makes sense to me. I imagine most folks do that too, since everyone doesn't use the same oils, filters, do analysis, etc. Thanks to everyone for their inputs.
 
Any and all with panties in a knot, its ok to have critical discussion and exchange. Even with a drive by "troll".

As long as the exchange is civil and asks a good question let it ride.

The key question basically Russ asks :"is spectrographic oil analysis a meaningful and cost effective tool for the consumer." My resounding response is YES ! The most underused tool in the automotive toolbox.
Got to be done right and not with a cheapo kit and poor interpretation.

Many uninformed folks in the automotive repair business and engineering side do not want you to use oil analysis because it eliminates or fine tunes troubleshooting and teardown time which means you may pay less for repairs or allows your machine to last longer than the required 3 years for replacement.

As I told Dragboat a while ago, for the cost of a pizza dinner for the family you can take a oil analysis and go a long way towards gathering emperical data on your machine, quit guessing, wasting money, time and oil changes.

[ January 13, 2004, 11:31 AM: Message edited by: Terry ]
 
No, I believe his post is saying that the wear data from UOAs are useless for comparing different brands of oil--even the folks at Redline and Blackstone have made similar statements in the past.
 
quote:

Originally posted by quadrun1:
No, I believe his post is saying that the wear data from UOAs are useless for comparing different brands of oil--even the folks at Redline and Blackstone have made similar statements in the past.

But he is wrong though, and Terry would back me up on this.

Let me put this another way:

If you use one oil for a while and consistently see 20ppm of lead every 5000 miles, then you switch oils and consistently start seeing 5ppm of lead in 5000 miles, you've definitely chosen the better oil, since obviously your bearings are now going to live a longer life (how much longer we don't know for certain, but definitely longer). There isn't that much of a margin of error in the testing process that we could say 20ppm is the same as 5ppm, so we can definitely pinpoint the better oils by doing UOAs and chosing the oil which shows the lower number.

I do believe you can't just base it on one UOA though, if you switch oils every interval to a different oil and try to choose it this way, you'll never get accurate results.
 
Oh, I agree with you, Patman! Personally I'd much rather have 5 ppm of lead than 20 ppm!

But most of us here are obsessed
cheers.gif


Probably most of the UOAs here are fine, except for the ones from Bolivia showing hundreds of ppm of wear metals...
 
I'm a type II diabetic and have a number of glucometers. Some read 120 when others taken at the same time read 98. I suspect this test will tell me whether or not I'm about ready to pass out from low blood sugar or if it's way too high the other way. There's a ton of difference, however, from sample to sample. If you look at the fine print in the instruction books, they state this-- just a general range with a fairly high differential based on the particular batch of strips, don't use it for fine tuning.

Same thing here, I suspect. Blackstone's readings are different than some other labs. What it does do is provide some sense that things are right or wrong. The difference between 2 and 5 parts per million probably ARE background noise.
 
Good point Quadrun1. Yes Pat I do agree.

I do believe that with enough statistical data I can point you to a oil formulation that works in your specific application better than another, brand is not an issue.

csandste, my 19 year old daughter is a type 1 diabetic since age 3, and I understand what you say. If you log your readings religously, sample the blood at the same time ,with the same glucometer day after day then it is amazing the relative accuracy of the newer testing equipement to show TRENDS.

Spectrograhic analysis is a trending tool and if interpeted properly is even better than just trends.

[ January 13, 2004, 03:59 PM: Message edited by: Terry ]
 
How do I get an oil anaylsis?
I am running synthetic and would like to get it anaylzed, then switch to conventional and see which is better in my vehicle.
Anyone?
 
quote:

Originally posted by headfirst:
How do I get an oil anaylsis?
I am running synthetic and would like to get it anaylzed, then switch to conventional and see which is better in my vehicle.
Anyone?


Check out this link:

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/index.html

When you contact them, ask for their Terry Dyson package, for $35 you'll get the oil analysis plus Terry Dyson's interpretation, which is very important to get, especially for beginners, as he'll be able to fully explain everything to you, and answer any subsequent questions you'll have.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top