quote:I tend to agree. From what I've seen and from the UOAs I've done myself, the synthetics seem to last (maintain viscosity & TBN) about twice as long as dino juice. The synthetics also hold up to extreme applications such as racing and motorcycle engines without getting chewed up as quickly as dino juice. For my beater econo cars, I use regular old cheap dino juice. For the race car & the motorcycle I use synthetics. I do UOAs on the race car & the bike. Not because I care whether Fe is 2 or 15, but to check whether the oil is maintaining viscosity and TBN given these engines that are modifed and driven hard.
Originally posted by Russ_Knize: Out of all the oils analysis results on this board that I have seen, 99% are in the so called "noise floor" and show no benefit to any of the oils, even synthetics. If someone says that 5 ppm is any better than 20 ppm, they are fantasizng. These numbers are in the statisical noise floor of the measurements. Now if you see consistent high numbers from one oil, say in the 100-200 ppm range, than you can start to draw a trend. As for me, I agree with Patman, the QS 10year/250K warrany has got more merits than any of the other oils out there. I will be switching over at my next oil change. Worrying about 5 ppm of lead or copper vs. 20 ppm has no benefit. Just my $.02 worth
quote:I see the purpose of your post, but I don't see it's point. UOA's provide for trend analysis. Performing a few of them in a row can provide very valuable information on what's going on under hood. And yes, sometimes, there's nothing much to talk about if the engine already has an oil and an OCI it likes. Besides, UOA's provide for good conversation! I've learned a ton here from them. There was a member here recently who showed Ford that his Taurus/Sable was trending in the wrong direction, and as a result, Ford paid for the leaky head gasket. A hundred buck in UOA's saved him a couple thousand. In the average car for 3-4K OCI's, this whole thing almost seems pointless, especially when QS gives you a 250K "warranty". But, QS won't cover the cost of that guy's head gasket leak! Bottom line to me: it's better to spend a couple hundred bucks on UOA's in a few years tim to make sure my cars engines will go the 300K mark than having to pay for a rebuild because the oil thinned out too much from a leaky gasket...or overworked oil in 98F heat for 4 months on end... Sometimes I think changing oil at 3K masks many of the coolant leaks drivers would otherwise deal with. So all in all, 5ppm or 20ppm just might matter in the long run.
These numbers are in the statisical noise floor of the measurements.
quote:FWIW, when I suggested to someone recently that they use QS because of this warranty, it was simply because their two choices given were Pennzoil and this one, and even though I believe Pennzoil to be the better oil, they are close enough that this warranty could be an extra bonus. However, don't take this to mean that I think QS is your best choice in motor oils in general, nor do I have any plans to switch to it myself. I have mentioned Quaker State a few times recently, simply out of curiosity as to why more people don't give it a try, especially considering this 250k warranty. It is a good point that QS would make you jump through hoops before they'd pay off though, so that warranty might be worthless in the long run. I just thought I'd mention this since that statement by Russ which I quoted above is very misleading.
As for me, I agree with Patman, the QS 10year/250K warrany has got more merits than any of the other oils out there.
quote:Interesting. My rationale is that my econoboxes are so inexpensive, and have an easy life, and are already going to last > 10 years and > 200000 miles on dino, that synthetic oil is not cost effective and offers no practical benefit. However, my race car and my motorcycle are driven HARD and modified making more than stock power. They see redline on a frequent basis every time I drive them. I'm giving these vehicles a level of abuse the engineers did not anticipate in their oil recommendations. Maybe dino would hold up just fine under those conditions... Maybe... But competition use voids the warranty and I'd hate to blow a $6,000 engine to find out.
Originally posted by dickwells: I tend to go the opposite way, the newer ones have engines that can deal perfectly well with Petro oil while the old ones may have marginal areas that could use the extra performance for a little longer survival.