Oil Warranty and Mobil-1

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I once owned a 1989 Honda Civic with the 1.5L SOHC engine. Even when new, the engine made a faint knocking noise during the warmup phase. I didn't think much of it at the time since my roommate's Civic of the same year made the same noise, as did other Civics of that era. I changed the oil faithfully at the recommended interval (6000 miles as I recall) using Mobil-1 5W-30 exclusively. I drove the car moderately and maintained it well over the years. By 135K miles the knocking noise at startup had become quite loud and didn't go away until the engine reached operating temperature, which could take 20 minutes in the winter time. Near the end to protect the engine I would let it warmup several minutes and drive gently until completely hot, which could take a while even in the summer. I estimated the noise was caused by piston slap, which resulted from wear of the piston skirt and/or the cylinder wall. Since there was never significant oil consumption and the engine delivered full power, I figured the cylinder wall and rings were not worn. So that meant the piston skirts were worn. But how could there be significant wear using Mobil-1 in moderate passenger car duty with regular oil changes? Maybe those criticisms that Mobil-1 was weak on wear protection (I am thinking of Amsoil's ads showing Mobil-1 to fare poorly on the 4-ball wear test) were on to something? I can't help but wonder whether my Honda would have lasted longer with petroleum oil? Did the Honda pistons have a design flaw? Or did the Mobil-1 oil film drain off the piston skirts so quickly after shut down and cause the sliding surfaces to be dry on cold starts?

Twenty-six years later, now that I have a new car I wonder whether it makes sense to sign up for an oil warranty to cover a potential situation like this? I should have been covered for the piston slap issue. However the warranty terms for Castrol, Valvoline and Pennzoil do NOT cover cam chain tensioners. In my opinion these are more likely to fail first after 100K miles, not piston skirts. So the odds of a reimbursable claim are so low, that an oil warranty is not worth the headache of keeping track of receipts, sticking to one brand for 10-15 years, foregoing occasional sales on competing brands, and changing the oil prematurely to comply with the terms of the warranty when the oil is plenty capable of going longer.

Any thoughts?
 
Originally Posted By: SandCastle
I once owned a 1989 Honda Civic with the 1.5L SOHC engine. Even when new, the engine made a faint knocking noise during the warmup phase. I didn't think much of it at the time since my roommate's Civic of the same year made the same noise, as did other Civics of that era. I changed the oil faithfully at the recommended interval (6000 miles as I recall) using Mobil-1 5W-30 exclusively. I drove the car moderately and maintained it well over the years. By 135K miles the knocking noise at startup had become quite loud and didn't go away until the engine reached operating temperature, which could take 20 minutes in the winter time. Near the end to protect the engine I would let it warmup several minutes and drive gently until completely hot, which could take a while even in the summer. I estimated the noise was caused by piston slap, which resulted from wear of the piston skirt and/or the cylinder wall. Since there was never significant oil consumption and the engine delivered full power, I figured the cylinder wall and rings were not worn. So that meant the piston skirts were worn. But how could there be significant wear using Mobil-1 in moderate passenger car duty with regular oil changes? Maybe those criticisms that Mobil-1 was weak on wear protection (I am thinking of Amsoil's ads showing Mobil-1 to fare poorly on the 4-ball wear test) were on to something? I can't help but wonder whether my Honda would have lasted longer with petroleum oil? Did the Honda pistons have a design flaw? Or did the Mobil-1 oil film drain off the piston skirts so quickly after shut down and cause the sliding surfaces to be dry on cold starts?

Twenty-six years later, now that I have a new car I wonder whether it makes sense to sign up for an oil warranty to cover a potential situation like this? I should have been covered for the piston slap issue. However the warranty terms for Castrol, Valvoline and Pennzoil do NOT cover cam chain tensioners. In my opinion these are more likely to fail first after 100K miles, not piston skirts. So the odds of a reimbursable claim are so low, that an oil warranty is not worth the headache of keeping track of receipts, sticking to one brand for 10-15 years, foregoing occasional sales on competing brands, and changing the oil prematurely to comply with the terms of the warranty when the oil is plenty capable of going longer.

Any thoughts?


Piston slap is caused by excessive clearance between the skirt and the bore. Some engines (and it sounds like yours did) slap from new. It does not effect the life of the engine usually, however it can certainly be annoying. Since the piston is literally "slapping" against the side of the bore, over time the skirt may deform from that impact making the "slap" more pronounced. There isn't an oil in existence that is going to help that and no, AMSOIL's 4-ball wear test is in no way relevant to this scenario where a short skirt piston is loose in the bore and the resulting rocking/sliding motion under the force of ignition results in an audible sound.

There are GM engines that have slapped like a champion since new, most of them run on anything you can probably think of. Conventional oil, Mobil 1, AMSOIL...etc. With no appreciable effect on how long they last but it often drives the owner nuts.

The "solution" to the short skirted piston problem, which came about with the advent of bulk-fit instead of hand-fit piston/bore assembly was to coat the skirts with teflon or a moly coating which makes the sound less audible; acts as a muffler basically. The action itself is still happening, you just don't hear it. If those coatings wear off, well, it becomes audible.
 
My '95 Acura was always noisy on start-up and quieted down when warm. As OVERKILL mentioned, it was likely piston slap. It was still running just fine at 217k when I sold it, and I had it since it had 120k on it. I used Mobil 1 in it once or twice, but mostly other brands, including conventional and full synthetic. In short, I doubt it was the oil, but just the way the engine is/was.
 
You might use Jackie Chiles in an oil warranty claim, but I don't think many attorneys would take your case. Thing is, to prove the oil caused the damage/failure/whatever would require very big buck expenditures and the case could drag on for years.
 
You can always take a look at the warranties the various oil companies offer. Mobil's warranty doesn't have these mileage limitations nor does it require OEM OCIs if using M1 or M1 EP. Most require more frequent intervals and sometimes signing up and so forth. Whether the little hoops would survive a court challenge is up for debate, but that's not really the issue here.
 
I'm no Exxon-Mobil attorney but your admission that the Civic knocked since new should take the wind out of your case.

Actually, you should send Mobil a note thanking them for keeping your Civic together for many years and 135,000 + miles.
 
Originally Posted By: Bigdaddyeasy
I'm pretty sure no oil company is really gonna ever make good on a warranty, but who knows.


I too worry about this, but maybe it's more of a reflection of my nature. Or more a reflection of having dealt with some big companies before.

It's too easy to drop the ball with brands, OCI and records over such a long period of time, so that they get a lot of brand loyalty for little risk.

Do you really think Mobil will pay anybody to pick up a spanner and fix your car?
I suspect they would just value your old car at some nominal second hand price, say $1000- (or less because it's broken), remove their administration costs, remove the cost of dealing with the "wreck" (which they sell on), and cut you a cheque for a few $100-. If you are lucky.

The people that sell the idea to you now, are not the people that administrate the claims in years to come.
 
Originally Posted By: Bigdaddyeasy
I'm pretty sure no oil company is really gonna ever make good on a warranty, but who knows.


There's a lot less likelihood you could demonstrate it was the oil that ruined your engine.
 
Originally Posted By: Bigdaddyeasy
I'm pretty sure no oil company is really gonna ever make good on a warranty, but who knows.


Agreed.

I think those oil warranty deals are just a way to for them to promote their oil.

IMO, if one changes the oil and filter at the recommended interval using a good quality oil, the odds of having engine breakdown related to lubrication is almost non-existent.
 
Has an oil company EVER paid a claim on their "warranty"?
"Its outrageous, egregious, preposterous..."--Jackie Chiles
Hey, his cousin got OJ off, so maybe he could win one for us.
 
Originally Posted By: ExMachina
Has an oil company EVER paid a claim on their "warranty"?
"Its outrageous, egregious, preposterous..."--Jackie Chiles
Hey, his cousin got OJ off, so maybe he could win one for us.


In order to have the oil company pay the warranty, wouldn't one have to prove that the oil was the reason the engine failed? I call that pretty much impossible. Even if an oil pump failed, highly unlikely that the oil caused that as well.
 
This is Imperial Oil's warranty. Of course, they offer lots of outs, but it is one of the more straightforward warranties out there. Pennzoil and Quaker State warranties appear to cover certain wear parts more readily, but you have to jump through a lot more hoops along the way, such as following the OCI rules and using their products exclusively, and so forth.

They probably don't pay much out, and they're definitely good marketing tools.
 
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