oil system mods for z06

axe

Messages
7
Location
austin TX
So I've got a stock '04 z06 that I took to the track (Motorsport Ranch) last weekend. After seeing oil temps of 280F+ using Shaeffer's 7000 15w40 Supreme and K&N oil filter I'm considering the following mods: 1. Relocate battery to rear of car (use Odyssey PC680MJT or PC925MJT http://www.odysseybatteries.com/auto.htm ) and mount just behind passenger seat on rear shelf or mount all the way in the rear). 2. In the old battery space under the hood, mount Fluidyne DB-30501 heat exchanger ( http://www.fluidyne.com ). Plumb coolant side of heat exchanger into heater hose (Which hose? Before or after the heater core?) 3. Mount 3-quart accusump under front bumper (oil pressure at the track was stable but I was only on the OEM tires). 4. Mount CM 25-106 canister oil filter ( http://www.cmfilters.com/remote.cfm# ) um, somewhere. 5. Route braided oil lines so oil flows from oil filter plate adapter to the fluidyne heat exchanger to the accusump (one-way valve so accusump can't backflow) to the remote oil filter and then back into the plate adapter. The point of the Fluidyne heat exchanger tapping the heater hose is to let the coolant on the engine side of the thermostat preheat the oil (vs. a radiator with an oil cooler built in where the oil takes 20 minutes to get to operating temp). The car is my daily driver and right now the oil temp barely reaches 160F on my drive to work so I'm hoping this setup would help preheat and then also cool the oil. 6. Install big radiator (Howe? Fluidyne? (Howe is cheaper I think)) to handle additional heat from the fluidyne. Additional questions: 1. What about oil pressure? It occurs to me that with the OEM setup, the only oil pressure drop between the oil pump and the oil channels in the engine is the oil filter. What I'm proposing would replace the K&N filter's pressure drop with the drop across the fluidyne heat exchanger, the CM remote filter, and 6 feet of braided hose. Am I going to generate so much backpressure from all this stuff that I only get 20psi of oil pressure in the motor? 2. What's the best way to drain the oil and refill during an oil change? Ideally I would get all the oil out of all the components and also be able to fill all the components with fresh oil. Should I install a fitting at the oil filter adapter plate so I can drain the oil from there as well as from the oil pan? 3. Where to mount oil filter? Do I want the oil filter to be the highest point in the system? Does it matter? 4. Is there anything wrong with putting the oil/water heat exchanger on the engine side of the thermostat? (Fluidyne says it's ok). 5. What oil to use? I'm hoping a system like this would stabilize the oil temps enough that I could run one type of oil both on the street and the track. The alternative is to run the Schaeffer's 15w40 on the street and change to race oil for the track but that's ~20 oil changes a year! (assuming 10 track events per year) Thanks very much for any input!! ---- Axel 2004 z06 [ April 22, 2004, 03:41 PM: Message edited by: axe ]
 
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4,872
Location
MN
How about just an a normal oil cooler? I think the 05 Vette with Z51 suspension has one standard. Seems like a lot simpler. -T
 

DJ

Messages
750
Location
New London WI
I am far from the most knowledgable here, but have you tried a more normal oil weight and had the exesive heat? 15w40 just seems awfully thick for such a new tight tolerance motor, not saying used 5w20 either but there is a lot of room inbetween. Besides that I think a normal oil cooler with an oil thermostat would do the trick.
 
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2,602
Location
The Tropics of Antartica
Just drop the vi down and use a real synlube made for performance engines and you'll see the temps drop. Alot simpler that way and you can trust these synlubes to take the heat better than a dino or blend. RP 21 or Mobil R 0w-30 would be a start and then there is Synergyn [Smile]
 

Patman

Staff member
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22,000
Location
Guelph, Ontario
RP41 is actually a better fit for a hard driven LS1/LS6 than RP21. The LS1/LS6 just loves an oil that is a thick 30wt to mid 40wt oil.
 
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2,602
Location
The Tropics of Antartica
I tend to save the heavier wts till the time accummulates on the engines ......that's a short track , relatively large sump capacity and not many laps around it at one time , maybe 8 laps so plenty of cool down time
 
Messages
80
Location
concord,ca
I agree,try a different/thinner oil.I have heard the ls engines prefer thinner.Redline 5w30 or 5w40 or the mobil 5w40.A lot of guys autocross vettes,might want to find a forum or check with the local vette racers to see what they have found works best.
 

axe

Thread starter
Messages
7
Location
austin TX
quote:
Originally posted by T-Keith: How about just an a normal oil cooler? I think the 05 Vette with Z51 suspension has one standard. Seems like a lot simpler. -T
Yeah, an air cooled setup would be easier but I was hoping to get the preheat effect of the oil-water heat exchanger. That's not as important as getting the cooling at the track, of course... It seemed to me that since the coolant temp is pretty carefully controlled (it heats up fast and then stays basically fixed as long as you have the radiator capacity), it would be good to tie the oil temp to that system. Versus an air-oil cooler where where the oil will heat up even slower than it does now and also be overcooled when it's cold outside. Granted, an oil thermostat helps with that. ---- Axel 2004 z06
 
Messages
308
Location
Houston, TX
couple of comments on the replies from first glance: 280 degrees is actually on the cool side for track use in most engines sans coolers. i don't think running a thinner oil will make it cooler. and i think a thick oil is warranted because the viscosity at those temps is significantly lower than at regular street operating temps. i bet a 15w40 at 280 degrees is thin like a 20w is at 212. if not even thinner. seems like a lot of people are worried about the oil dealing with those high temps. i'm more worried about the engine and bearings. in that engine, for instance, half the bearing shells are in Al, the other half in steel or iron. add 50-100 degrees and the clearances will change, as well as the bearing material being softer. modern oils are very resistant to heat, i think, so much of the reason to have cool oil is for bearing/engine longevity. once the oil temps are under control, i do agree that a thinner weight is in order (since the operating viscosity will be higher for a given weight). -michael
 

axe

Thread starter
Messages
7
Location
austin TX
quote:
Originally posted by Motorbike: I tend to save the heavier wts till the time accummulates on the engines ......that's a short track , relatively large sump capacity and not many laps around it at one time , maybe 8 laps so plenty of cool down time
One of the things that concernes me is this was my first event with the car and I was on street tires and I don't know the track. That plus 75F ambient gave me an oil temp of 280F. So then what happens at a fast track on Hoosiers for 30 laps when it's 105F this summer? [Embarrassed] Other vettes seem to think it's normal to see over 300F at the track... ---- Axel 2004 z06
 
Messages
308
Location
Houston, TX
quote:
Originally posted by axe: PC680MJT or PC925MJT
go with the 925, definitely, especially if it's remote and has to push through long cables. -michael
 
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2,602
Location
The Tropics of Antartica
Quote: " So then what happens at a fast track on Hoosiers for 30 laps when it's 105F this summer? A faster track will allow for this thinner race oil I am speaking of better than the TX track you were just on guessing Texas World Speedway is next on your list [Smile] . Rely on the superior film strenght of the synlube vs a mineral basestock in conditions like this then factor in the barrier additives and these oils will be the ticket w/o additional oil cooling until possible future engine modifications and more horsepower depict the need for it . Nice well built medium VI synlubes are used every weekend across the USA with a high degree of success . Kinda thinking you'll agree if you change lubes and watch the temps go down , protection go up [Smile] . Hey though . Don't take my word call Royal Purple , Redline or Synergyn . They will tell you the same I reckon [Wink] Good luck and have fun with it [Cheers!] PS 280 - 300F ain't nothin to worry about with the right lube [Burnout]
 
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324
Location
California
I'm not a big engine expert but here is my $0.02: It seems like you car is brand new. In that case I (at least personally) would not run 15w-40. Stick with the recommended weight. Mobil 1 10W-30 is a good start. Redline 10W-30 is even better in your case. GC 0W-30 should work very well also. I don’t get it wrong I don’t want to scare you - running 40 weight is fine (and Schaeffer’s is a good oil for some engines) but in that case Redline 10W-40 or Mobil 1 5W-40 will perform better than most other oils. You should take into consideration that standard engine temp in Corvette is 220F compared to 195F in most domestic cars and 170-180F in some Japanese makes. But still 280 and above is rather high. I don't think that all this additional hardware is a good thing. You only complicate car design and expand possibility for something to go wrong. I shouldn't even mention warranty issues. Oil coolers, if not installed as standard equipment, are generally a bad idea (as I heard). No matter what anyone says coolers do restrict oil pressure. Regards,
 
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College Dorm...
Forget all the "add-on" stuff and try some other oils beforehand... Go to a lighter-viscosity oil (that can handle the abuse) and stick with the same filter: Mobil1 Racing 0w-30 K&N Oil Filter Let us know how it goes...
 
Messages
4,872
Location
MN
quote:
Originally posted by axe:
quote:
Originally posted by T-Keith: How about just an a normal oil cooler? I think the 05 Vette with Z51 suspension has one standard. Seems like a lot simpler. -T
Yeah, an air cooled setup would be easier but I was hoping to get the preheat effect of the oil-water heat exchanger. That's not as important as getting the cooling at the track, of course... It seemed to me that since the coolant temp is pretty carefully controlled (it heats up fast and then stays basically fixed as long as you have the radiator capacity), it would be good to tie the oil temp to that system. Versus an air-oil cooler where where the oil will heat up even slower than it does now and also be overcooled when it's cold outside. Granted, an oil thermostat helps with that. ---- Axel 2004 z06

I think driven hard, the oil temp is going to go up almost as fast as the coolant temp, if not faster. It seems to me an air cooled unit with a thermostat bypass would warm up plenty quick. I'm not sure if the 05's oil cooler has a thermostat or not, but I wouldn't worry about the oil temps getting too low. They'll be warmed back up when they go back into the engine. -T
 
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Outside smalltown, IL
Your oil temps on a longer track may decrease anyway because of increased airflow. Short tracks don't work the engine any less, they just have lower speeds. I'm with the others saying - Thinner lube. Mobil 1 0W-30R, German Castrol 0W-30, Redline. Use a synthetic! The largest air/oil cooler you can fit in with a thermostat. One other thing. If you add an accusump, don't you need to be able to get at the valve during startup and shutdown? The one I'm thinking of is just a pressurized bladder that keeps the system pressure up if the oil pump starves. You need to be able to close it off at shut down or you have to refill it completely at startup which sort of defeats one of the purposes of it. And Thomas is dead on. You're not the first guy to open track one of these... edit: I suppose you could plumb the accusump with a solenoid valve so you could take care of it remotely... [ April 23, 2004, 03:07 PM: Message edited by: jsharp ]
 
Messages
308
Location
Houston, TX
quote:
Originally posted by jsharp: If you add an accusump, don't you need to be able to get at the valve during startup and shutdown? The one I'm thinking of is just a pressurized bladder that keeps the system pressure up if the oil pump starves. You need to be able to close it off at shut down or you have to refill it completely at startup which sort of defeats one of the purposes of it.
they come with electric solenoids, most people hook them up to the ignition switch. so when you turn off the engine, it seals the accusump. then when you go to start the car, key on starts pre-lubing it. but even if you used no valve at all, there's an orifice that slows down the fill rate. so if you start the engine with it empty and 0 pressure, you're only bleeding off some small percentage of the engine's output. much like a bypass filter setup. -michael
 

Patman

Staff member
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22,000
Location
Guelph, Ontario
After seeing how good your oil analysis results turned out with Schaeffer 15w40 I say you could probably just stick with your current program and you'd be just fine, just keep doing UOAs to monitor.
 
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3,593
Location
Outside smalltown, IL
quote:
Originally posted by Michael SR:
quote:
Originally posted by jsharp: If you add an accusump, don't you need to be able to get at the valve during startup and shutdown? The one I'm thinking of is just a pressurized bladder that keeps the system pressure up if the oil pump starves. You need to be able to close it off at shut down or you have to refill it completely at startup which sort of defeats one of the purposes of it.
they come with electric solenoids, most people hook them up to the ignition switch. so when you turn off the engine, it seals the accusump. then when you go to start the car, key on starts pre-lubing it. but even if you used no valve at all, there's an orifice that slows down the fill rate. so if you start the engine with it empty and 0 pressure, you're only bleeding off some small percentage of the engine's output. much like a bypass filter setup. -michael

This makes sense. I haven't looked at any of the current setups. In years past it was common to stick them somewhere in the interior with a manual valve. Wired as you say, you could probably plumb a drain fitting in between the unit and the valve to take care of draining it. It would keep you from needing to sit with the key on to drain it. Lots of ways to go and it's just plumbing after all... [Wink] [ April 23, 2004, 09:55 PM: Message edited by: jsharp ]
 
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