Oil Suggestions for 2015 Passat TDI? 5w30 VW 507

Status
Not open for further replies.
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by Bjornviken
Yeah... i know about API SN Zink/Phos limits. But thats not the subject as the oil is a mid sap oil. So whats the next? Cam wear?


Cam wear was design issue on VW vehicles. It was not oil issue. People found out that they can extend life of cams on PD TDI engines buy using heavier oil.
You are talking about API SN, which is stringent as requirements on average Olive oil that you can buy in grocery store.


Dont take me wrong, but mobil1 have api spec on all their esp oils and this 0w-30 does not have it. What test do you think they faild? I know that api sn is not a high spec but this oil do not have it.
 
Originally Posted by Bjornviken
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by Bjornviken
Yeah... i know about API SN Zink/Phos limits. But thats not the subject as the oil is a mid sap oil. So whats the next? Cam wear?


Cam wear was design issue on VW vehicles. It was not oil issue. People found out that they can extend life of cams on PD TDI engines buy using heavier oil.
You are talking about API SN, which is stringent as requirements on average Olive oil that you can buy in grocery store.


Dont take me wrong, but mobil1 have api spec on all their esp oils and this 0w-30 does not have it. What test do you think they faild? I know that api sn is not a high spec but this oil do not have it.

What makes you think Mobil1 send their oil to be tested for API SN in the first place? This Mobil1 is made for owners of diesel engines with DPF. API is totally irrelevant as buyers are buying this oil based on what their manual says they should use. API specifications, especially S specifications were irrelevant to engineers of this engine! Only thing that matters here is VW 504.00/507.00. That is it!
Now, tell us why owner of VW TDI should care about API SN?
 
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by Bjornviken
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by Bjornviken
Yeah... i know about API SN Zink/Phos limits. But thats not the subject as the oil is a mid sap oil. So whats the next? Cam wear?


Cam wear was design issue on VW vehicles. It was not oil issue. People found out that they can extend life of cams on PD TDI engines buy using heavier oil.
You are talking about API SN, which is stringent as requirements on average Olive oil that you can buy in grocery store.


Dont take me wrong, but mobil1 have api spec on all their esp oils and this 0w-30 does not have it. What test do you think they faild? I know that api sn is not a high spec but this oil do not have it.

What makes you think Mobil1 send their oil to be tested for API SN in the first place? This Mobil1 is made for owners of diesel engines with DPF. API is totally irrelevant as buyers are buying this oil based on what their manual says they should use. API specifications, especially S specifications were irrelevant to engineers of this engine! Only thing that matters here is VW 504.00/507.00. That is it!
Now, tell us why owner of VW TDI should care about API SN?


Well they send their other diesel oils? And other VW 508 oils like the 0w-20 esp. And why would you not want a api SN VW appoved oil over a non api sn approved VW oil?And recommended the owner to avoid that oil. And thats was my oppinion. Cant get why you got so uppset about that.
 
Originally Posted by Bjornviken
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by Bjornviken
Yeah... i know about API SN Zink/Phos limits. But thats not the subject as the oil is a mid sap oil. So whats the next? Cam wear?


Do you?

The Phosphorous limit for C2/C3 is 0.09%
https://www.lubrizol.com/Lubricant-and-Fuel-Additives/Engine-Oil-Additives/ACEA/Sequences/ACEA-C2-10

The Phosphorous limit for SN is 0.08%:
https://www.infineum.com/media/80723/api-engine-oil-classifications.pdf


Mobil1 0w-30 c2/c3 have 0.08% Phosphorous. All the other Mobil 1 oils carrying api spec.


Where are you getting the Phosphorous level for the oil? The Russian oil site VOA shows:
Zinc at 922ppm, Phosphorous at 805ppm, which, while not much above the limit, is still above the limit.

You seem to have missed the point though.

You claimed that the API SN Zinc/Phos limits were irrelevant because the oil was mid-SAPS:
Originally Posted by Bjornviken
Yeah... i know about API SN Zink/Phos limits. But thats not the subject as the oil is a mid sap oil. So whats the next? Cam wear?


Obviously, given that the limits differ as I've indicated, and provided references for, that is not the case.

I'm not sure as to the strawman you are trying to assemble here, but the lack of an API approval on a European oil is irrelevant. I've provided a reasonably plausible reason why Mobil hasn't pursued it, all the hand waving and sky is falling nonsense ads nothing of value and certainly in no way evidences the oil as inferior, which, despite your assertions at this juncture, still remains a baseless hyperbolic construct.
 
Originally Posted by Bjornviken
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by Bjornviken
Yeah... i know about API SN Zink/Phos limits. But thats not the subject as the oil is a mid sap oil. So whats the next? Cam wear?


Cam wear was design issue on VW vehicles. It was not oil issue. People found out that they can extend life of cams on PD TDI engines buy using heavier oil.
You are talking about API SN, which is stringent as requirements on average Olive oil that you can buy in grocery store.


Dont take me wrong, but mobil1 have api spec on all their esp oils and this 0w-30 does not have it. What test do you think they faild? I know that api sn is not a high spec but this oil do not have it.


Why does an omission of a non-relevant spec require a failure?

You realize there is more than one Mobil oil that doesn't have SN right?
- M1 ESP 0w-40, the latest Dexos 2 oil, also lacks SN
- M1 Formula M 5w-40, the Mercedes lube, lacks SN

Shell Rotella T6 5w-40 also doesn't have API SN, is it garbage too?
Originally Posted by SOPUS
API: CK-4, CJ-4, CI-4 PLUS, CI-4, CH-4 ACEA E9, JASO DH-2, Cummins CES 20086; Volvo VDS-4.5; Detroit Fluid Specification DDC (DFS) 93K222, Caterpillar ECF-2/ECF-3, MAN M3575, JASO MA/ MA2, Allison TES 439, MB-Approval 228.31
 
Quote
Well they send their other diesel oils? And other VW 508 oils like the 0w-20 esp. And why would you not want a api SN VW appoved oil over a non api sn approved VW oil?And recommended the owner to avoid that oil. And thats was my oppinion. Cant get why you got so uppset about that.

Other Mobil1 oils lack Sn.
But, let's get back to your point.
So, if oil meets API SN that means owner of VW TDI can use API SN oil and forget VW 504.00/507.00?
 
Originally Posted by kschachn
Lack of API licensing didn't seem to be a problem in this post so it seems to be a manufactured issue just to grind some gears about Mobil:

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4822516/re-api-vs-acea#Post4822516

Plus many of the Amsoil oils he often praises aren't licensed either.


Imagine that
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by Kamele0N
I would avoid C2 oil(s).....lower HTHS....

And since it is a "dieselgate buyback" car......expect EGR problems....thats the first thing to fail after a "downgrade"

There is NO APPROVAL for ACEA specifications.
Oils that are C3 and C2 are HTHS 3.5 and above, but meet fuel efficiency requirements of C2. That means that composition of those oils is really good to have such high HTHS but still fuel efficiency of C2.

Tnx...didnt know/look on this like that...
 
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by Bjornviken
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by Bjornviken
Yeah... i know about API SN Zink/Phos limits. But thats not the subject as the oil is a mid sap oil. So whats the next? Cam wear?


Do you?

The Phosphorous limit for C2/C3 is 0.09%
https://www.lubrizol.com/Lubricant-and-Fuel-Additives/Engine-Oil-Additives/ACEA/Sequences/ACEA-C2-10

The Phosphorous limit for SN is 0.08%:
https://www.infineum.com/media/80723/api-engine-oil-classifications.pdf


Mobil1 0w-30 c2/c3 have 0.08% Phosphorous. All the other Mobil 1 oils carrying api spec.


Where are you getting the Phosphorous level for the oil? The Russian oil site VOA shows:
Zinc at 922ppm, Phosphorous at 805ppm, which, while not much above the limit, is still above the limit.

You seem to have missed the point though.

You claimed that the API SN Zinc/Phos limits were irrelevant because the oil was mid-SAPS:
Originally Posted by Bjornviken
Yeah... i know about API SN Zink/Phos limits. But thats not the subject as the oil is a mid sap oil. So whats the next? Cam wear?


Obviously, given that the limits differ as I've indicated, and provided references for, that is not the case.

I'm not sure as to the strawman you are trying to assemble here, but the lack of an API approval on a European oil is irrelevant. I've provided a reasonably plausible reason why Mobil hasn't pursued it, all the hand waving and sky is falling nonsense ads nothing of value and certainly in no way evidences the oil as inferior, which, despite your assertions at this juncture, still remains a baseless hyperbolic construct.



Got my info of the Phosphorous at mobil1 homepage. Not from a russian oil forum.
 
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by Bjornviken
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by Bjornviken
Yeah... i know about API SN Zink/Phos limits. But thats not the subject as the oil is a mid sap oil. So whats the next? Cam wear?


Cam wear was design issue on VW vehicles. It was not oil issue. People found out that they can extend life of cams on PD TDI engines buy using heavier oil.
You are talking about API SN, which is stringent as requirements on average Olive oil that you can buy in grocery store.


Dont take me wrong, but mobil1 have api spec on all their esp oils and this 0w-30 does not have it. What test do you think they faild? I know that api sn is not a high spec but this oil do not have it.


Why does an omission of a non-relevant spec require a failure?

You realize there is more than one Mobil oil that doesn't have SN right?
- M1 ESP 0w-40, the latest Dexos 2 oil, also lacks SN
- M1 Formula M 5w-40, the Mercedes lube, lacks SN

Shell Rotella T6 5w-40 also doesn't have API SN, is it garbage too?
Originally Posted by SOPUS
API: CK-4, CJ-4, CI-4 PLUS, CI-4, CH-4 ACEA E9, JASO DH-2, Cummins CES 20086; Volvo VDS-4.5; Detroit Fluid Specification DDC (DFS) 93K222, Caterpillar ECF-2/ECF-3, MAN M3575, JASO MA/ MA2, Allison TES 439, MB-Approval 228.31


But the mobil1 0w-40 have api sm? And isnt the mobil1 5-40 mb a dealer oil? Just like The Bmw twin power turbo oil? Now i am alking about off the shelf oil. Then to be honest i do not know much about Heavy duty oil but would not recommend run them in a petrol car if they dont carry api sn spec. But that is just me. Just was my opinion to use a oil that carrying more spec to the OP and didnt say it was a bad oil,just did say to avoid that oil.
 
Just for reference, phosphorus limits in API differ by grade. There's a reason that 5w-30 and 0w-30 A3/B4 options are licensed SL or older. The same rule now applies to HDEOs in 0w-30 and 5w-30 and 10w-30. If there's an SN on the bottle and it's 0w-20, 5w-20, 0w-30, 5w-30, or 10w-30, it must have no more than 800 ppm phosphorus. 40 grades (and SAE 30, I'd assume, since it never was an ILSAC grade) are not subject to this.
 
Originally Posted by Garak
Just for reference, phosphorus limits in API differ by grade. There's a reason that 5w-30 and 0w-30 A3/B4 options are licensed SL or older. The same rule now applies to HDEOs in 0w-30 and 5w-30 and 10w-30. If there's an SN on the bottle and it's 0w-20, 5w-20, 0w-30, 5w-30, or 10w-30, it must have no more than 800 ppm phosphorus. 40 grades (and SAE 30, I'd assume, since it never was an ILSAC grade) are not subject to this.


Yes i know about the a3 in xx-30 grade is api sl. But still the HDEO oils carry some sort api grade wich the mobil1 0w-30 c2/c3 have not even if the phosphorus is 0.8%
 
Originally Posted by Bjornviken



Got my info of the Phosphorous at mobil1 homepage. Not from a russian oil forum.


Do you mean from this doc?
https://mobiloil.com/~/media/amer/us/pvl/files/pdfs/mobil-1-oil-product-specs-guide.pdf

The Russian site does indeed show numbers close to what are shown there.

Did you note it also said:
Quote
Low SAPS. Available at most MB dealers.


Which is likely yet another reason why it doesn't have SN.
 
Originally Posted by Bjornviken

But the mobil1 0w-40 have api sm?


API SN, but yes, and it's an oil that has been spec'd for vehicles that actually call for an API approval in the past, and being a 40, isn't bothered by the limits imposed on 30's.

Originally Posted by Bjornviken
And isnt the mobil1 5-40 mb a dealer oil? Just like The Bmw twin power turbo oil? Now i am alking about off the shelf oil.

Per the Mobil spec document, the X1 0w-30 appears to primarily be intended for MB dealers/applications, just like the 5w-40. Though as noted on the PDS, it also has the VW approvals.

Originally Posted by Bjornviken
Then to be honest i do not know much about Heavy duty oil but would not recommend run them in a petrol car if they dont carry api sn spec. But that is just me. Just was my opinion to use a oil that carrying more spec to the OP and didnt say it was a bad oil,just did say to avoid that oil.

Delvac and Rotella generally carry the same specs. Mobil decided to keep API SN on D1 ESP 5w-40, Shell didn't with Rotella T6 5w-40. It isn't particularly relevant, since the target market is heavy diesel engines. It's the same case here with the Euro oil, the absence of API SN has no bearing on the performance of the lubricant.
 
Originally Posted by Bjornviken
But the mobil1 0w-40 have api sm? And isnt the mobil1 5-40 mb a dealer oil? Just like The Bmw twin power turbo oil? Now i am alking about off the shelf oil. Then to be honest i do not know much about Heavy duty oil but would not recommend run them in a petrol car if they dont carry api sn spec. But that is just me. Just was my opinion to use a oil that carrying more spec to the OP and didnt say it was a bad oil,just did say to avoid that oil.

Why would one avoid it when the vehicle does not require the specification? That makes no sense, especially when the required approval that it does have is far more stringent than the one you're complaining it does not have.

Should I avoid an SN oil for my ECHO because it does not have Longlife-01 approval? It has "more spec" as you say.

Further, I've seen you recommend Amsoil SS oil that has no approvals nor specs. By your standard of "more spec" shouldn't everyone avoid those oils like the plague?
 
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by Bjornviken



Got my info of the Phosphorous at mobil1 homepage. Not from a russian oil forum.


Do you mean from this doc?
https://mobiloil.com/~/media/amer/us/pvl/files/pdfs/mobil-1-oil-product-specs-guide.pdf

The Russian site does indeed show numbers close to what are shown there.

Did you note it also said:
Quote
Low SAPS. Available at most MB dealers.


Which is likely yet another reason why it doesn't have SN.


Did get it from this. UK mobil1 homepage. Same info at Fin, Swe, and others EU countrys.

https://www.mobil1.co.uk/synthetic-...p-0w-30.aspx?tabs=specifications&p=2
 
And again, OP asked about oil for VW Passat TDI. So, 3 pages of discussion about API SN and yet no answer how does that matter to OP question which oil to use in VW Passat and b. Why he should not use oil that does not have API SN approval?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

sloinker
Today is the day for an oil change.
Replies
4
Views
967
tnt_motorsports
T
Suggestions for a 5W-30 VW 507 00
Replies
18
Views
22K
Michael58
AudiR8
Best oil for Audi R8 V8
Replies
9
Views
3K
TiGeo
J
VW 507 Oil
2
Replies
21
Views
10K
Gene K
B
22 VW Atlas Oil Selection(and Confusion)
2 3
Replies
43
Views
8K
TiGeo
Back
Top