Hi all,
New to the forums but have viewed threads on many occasions. Impressed with the amount of knowledge and the quality of information that I have seen thus far on this forum.
I own a 1990 Toyota Hilux Surf with a 2.4L 2L-T 4 cylinder IDI turbodiesel engine in it, that originally came from Japan. My concern is what oil to put in it. The FSM for my engine calls for 10w-30 to 15w-40 (for my climate/temperature range) API grade CF-4, but then in brackets says (you may also use CF, CE or CD).
These specs of oil are all obsolete, and I have been running Shell Rotella T 15w-40 in it, which is CJ-4 as I'm sure you guys are aware (this is what my old man runs in his 6BT Cummins), with oil changes every 5000km and filter changes every 10000km. After doing some research online about oil specification, I am now under the impression that by running a diesel engine oil that is overspec'ed for my engine, I run the risk or bore glazing if I run the engine under "light-duty" conditions. Most of my driving is highway, with speeds around 100-115km/h, 2800-3000rpm and 600-900*F exhaust temperatures, which I feel does give the engine a good workout, but I am unsure if this consitutes "light-duty" or "severe-duty" operation. I do putter around town with it as well.
I now see that Shell has discontinued the Rotella T oil and replaced it with Rotella T4, which is CK-4 spec and I feel is probably way overspec'ed for my engine. My problem is, I'm having a hard time finding a suitable oil to run in it. I noticed that some "gasoline engine" PCMOs are rated for CF as well as SN, or SJ or whatever. Would an oil like this be better suited to an older diesel like mine that calls for CF-4? Or are those oils primarily for gas engines with marginal service ratings for diesel applications?
These Toyota IDI engines are known to be fairly sooty, and I plan on disabling the EGR soon. My engine has about 145,000km on it right now, and does use some oil between changes. Some of it leaks from the rear main, but I am pretty sure at the current rate of disappearance that some of it is being burned.
So my questions are, what type of oil would you guys recommend for this truck? How much of a risk is bore glazing when using an overspec'ed oil doing my type of driving? Do you think that the oil consumption could be a result of bore glazing?
Many thanks in advance.
Oil Selection Advice for 1990 Toyota Diesel Hilux
- Thread starter kw90surf
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if you believe the API, each increase in oil category (letter) gave the lubricant better engine protection so at least in theory a CK or CJ oil will protect your engine far better than an old CF oil
http://www.api.org/products-and-services...el-c-categories
the oil consumption is probably because of worn valve stem seals
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Thanks for your reply. The bore glazing problem I heard was due to the more aggressive detergent packages in the high spec oils. You're saying you don't think this would be an issue?
Bump - I would have figured that there would be at least a few more people on here with some insight.
We've been running these engines in New Zealand forever on engine oil, doesn't really matter what you pour in, you aren't going to shorten it's life. An HDEO 15W-40 of any brand is perfect. What is a concern on the 2L-T is the cyl head. They crack at any sign of an overheat...anything over luke warm is a problem. Getting to be less of them around now, but you can buy a new cyl head for $800 complete.
Originally Posted By: Silk
We've been running these engines in New Zealand forever on engine oil, doesn't really matter what you pour in, you aren't going to shorten it's life. An HDEO 15W-40 of any brand is perfect. What is a concern on the 2L-T is the cyl head. They crack at any sign of an overheat...anything over luke warm is a problem. Getting to be less of them around now, but you can buy a new cyl head for $800 complete.
Everyone sells heads over here, and it's hard to find out where they are made. A company called Kiwi Heads sells most...they come in a Kiwi Heads box, and that's all the info we get. They are certainly not genuine, even if they are sold out of a dealership. I've had some fail - the 4D56 head in my own Pajero only lasted a week, or 1,000km, the 2nd lasted 30,000km. Thin castings in some areas. Also issues with precom chambers in the early days, wrong sizes for application, but that seems to be sorted once they realaized we were being supplied with the wrong ones.
It was common to replace the 2L-T with a non turbo 3L or 5L, to get away from 2L-T problems - I did it with a customers Surf and it turned out a nice vehicle. You need to keep the radiator clean - tanks off and rod clean, or replace preferably with an extra row of tubes. And a high flow thermostat.
Still plenty of N120/N130 Surf's with 2L-T's on the road in NZ, diesel is still prefered over the petrol V6 if you are going to use it as intended - the V6 sounds like it's doing the job, but it's just going nowhere as the diesel goes past.
http://easian.en.gasgoo.com/auto-products/2191576.html
is like an introduction to many Chinese companies that make..."stuff".
A few years ago, I started talking to a couple of filter suppliers, and could get 500 "Shannow" branded ZD30 oil filters shipped to the dock for $1.06US each...could even get them in Nissan boxes LOL.
There's a handful of companies on there making heads (for example for the ZD30), you just got to buy a few at a time.
Was on their mailing list for a while, and could have snaffled LHS from Subaru driveshafts (forget model) complete with CVs and Boots for $14US per, but I needed to buy 300 of them.
NZ parts suppliers have been into this for over 25 years, ever since they lifted restrictions on what we could import. I see people in other countries worrying about buying an orphan - never a problem here, we can get the parts. My wife has a Nissan Expert, I doubt if anyone here knows what it is, but I can buy any part I need for it, if not today, then only a week away.
Originally Posted By: Silk
Everyone sells heads over here, and it's hard to find out where they are made. A company called Kiwi Heads sells most...they come in a Kiwi Heads box, and that's all the info we get. They are certainly not genuine, even if they are sold out of a dealership. I've had some fail - the 4D56 head in my own Pajero only lasted a week, or 1,000km, the 2nd lasted 30,000km. Thin castings in some areas. Also issues with precom chambers in the early days, wrong sizes for application, but that seems to be sorted once they realaized we were being supplied with the wrong ones.
They may all be made in China these days, but 15 years ago when we started getting them there was talk about Portugal, South America, Mexico and Asian countries other than China. As far as the Mitsubishi 4D56, Hyundai were using the same engine, and you could get a complete Hyundai head (cam, rockers and valves) for double the cost of a bare head made who knows where.
I replaced a 4D56 head last summer. the old head had cracks between the precom chambers and a the valve seats.
I don't know where the new head was sourced, it wasn't genuine Mitsu or hyundai. But it had no precom inserts, the chambers are cast together with the head. That could help a lot!
That Pajero is still running fine now (as it should).
My point: I would prefer a head like that, and if they made a mitsu head with this new technique maybe they also exist for the toyota and I'd do my utmost best to find one.
Originally Posted By: Silk
They may all be made in China these days, but 15 years ago when we started getting them there was talk about Portugal, South America, Mexico and Asian countries other than China. As far as the Mitsubishi 4D56, Hyundai were using the same engine, and you could get a complete Hyundai head (cam, rockers and valves) for double the cost of a bare head made who knows where.
Originally Posted By: Jetronic
I replaced a 4D56 head last summer. the old head had cracks between the precom chambers and a the valve seats.
I don't know where the new head was sourced, it wasn't genuine Mitsu or hyundai. But it had no precom inserts, the chambers are cast together with the head. That could help a lot!
That Pajero is still running fine now (as it should).
My point: I would prefer a head like that, and if they made a mitsu head with this new technique maybe they also exist for the toyota and I'd do my utmost best to find one.
I don't think there was any difference to original, they were just a replacement head. The Toyota head came with unfinished valve seats so they could be matched to the valves and buckets. Every other head I done has finished seats. Haven't done a Toyota head for a while (the L engines, C1 and C2, KD and KZ all crack heads) but we did about 4 BT50 heads last year.
Rotella T4 Triple Protection 15W-40 (or 10W-30) will be perfectly fine. We would not recommend using gasoline engine oils. Given the conditions you run your engine, there won’t be any (or very little) risks of bore glazing as far as we know. Oil consumption will vary on the manufacturer of the vehicle. Some manufacturers even expect engine oil burn off. Of course, they have values for what is excessive and that’s when they recommend having someone at their dealership check it out. For your application, Rotella T4 Triple Protection 10W-30 or 15W-40 would work great! - The Shell Rotella Team
Chris's advice makes good sense. Trying to use a gasoline type (but still claimed dual rated, such as SL/CF on the label) up here is going to be problematic anyhow. Trying to find that will send you into A3/B4 synthetic territory, or boutiques, neither of which will be as attractively priced.
Originally Posted By: ChrisGuerrero
Rotella T4 Triple Protection 15W-40 (or 10W-30) will be perfectly fine. We would not recommend using gasoline engine oils. Given the conditions you run your engine, there won’t be any (or very little) risks of bore glazing as far as we know. Oil consumption will vary on the manufacturer of the vehicle. Some manufacturers even expect engine oil burn off. Of course, they have values for what is excessive and that’s when they recommend having someone at their dealership check it out. For your application, Rotella T4 Triple Protection 10W-30 or 15W-40 would work great! - The Shell Rotella Team
Originally Posted By: Garak
Chris's advice makes good sense. Trying to use a gasoline type (but still claimed dual rated, such as SL/CF on the label) up here is going to be problematic anyhow. Trying to find that will send you into A3/B4 synthetic territory, or boutiques, neither of which will be as attractively priced.
The problem is that CF is technically obsolete. The API isn't licensing CF products any longer. So, if you trust that the oil company stating SL/CF is actually making a product that would pass the CF standards, great. It just isn't being police.
For the record, I would state that I would expect any of the A3/B4 examples we see (i.e. Castrol 0w-30, 0w-40, M1 0w-40, the Pennzoil Euro A3/B4 options) that also show SL/CF (or something similar, like SN/CF) would easily exceed the CF specification, and by a significant margin. They would do the job admirably, but would not be the most cost effective options, particularly if you're buying things like Castrol 0w-30 in a litre bottles. Additionally, I believe Royal Purple's 10w-40 also shows CF on the bottle. I have little doubt it's up to the task. The cost will be high, though. That's why I'd just use an ordinary HDEO.
Since the CF days, HDEOs have improved remarkably, and there's a reason we wouldn't see, today, for example, an SN/CK-4 or an SM/CJ-4; we see it reversed. I can find ordinary PCMOs in my garage that are very old 10w-30 examples, that also list a CF on there. Rest assured if I had a case of that, I wouldn't be sending it to you to use in your vehicle. When we had diesels at the time, they were getting appropriate oils, marketed as HDEOs, from Esso or Shell. If it ran on gas, it got Quaker State. If it ran on diesel, the oil label said XD-3 or Rotella.
When they talk about requirements consistent with vehicle manufacturers' recommendations for gasoline fuelled engines, the biggest concerns were HTHS and phosphorus, but of which can be a bit overblown. Also, the phosphorus concern, legitimate or not, is addressed with some of the low phosphorus HDEOs we now see.
Garak, great information. Thank you.
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