Oil Recommendations To Mitigate Sludge In Short Drives

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
87
Location
Vancouver Island, BC CANADA
My daughter has a 2009 Hyundai Accent 1.6 L standard transmission. For the last several years, I have been using Castrol GTX Dino in 5W20, which is what is specified for this car. I also use Valvoline 5W20 Dino as well on occasion.

The thing with her car, however, is that she does primarily short runs of anywhere from 10 to 15 minutes of driving, to and from work, and occasionally maybe about 45 to 50 minutes on the highway once a week or once every two weeks. But primarily her driving consists of no more than 10 to 15 minutes at a time. I am assuming that because of the short drives, her oil is not getting to a high enough temperature to burn off any condensation, and that this potentially could be a contributor to sludge buildup. She only drives about 5,000 to 6,000km a year, and I change her oil every 5,000 kilometres which means I usually change it every 10 to 12 months. And this is why I'm using Dino oil instead of synthetic.

Although there are no problems associated with the oil I'm using as far as performance, sound, or anything like that, I am wondering if there is specific type of oil that I should be looking at, or one with a specific additive package that is better suited for short-haul trips where the oil does not make it up to full temperature most of the time?
 
You are assuming an issue? If so do a uoa, look at moisture in fuel, so you will want to send a full sample in. Oil system still sheds moisture below 212f, just slower. But I would verify an issue before making any beans about it.
 
I'd say your better option to try and minimize sludge would be a more frequent OCI. Say changing every 6 months (Spring and Fall) with your current oils as they are good solid oils.
 
I'm not really assuming an issue per se, but having read other threads about short trips, and the oil not getting up to temperature, that sludge can develop because of that. This was more a preventative question then it is a problem right now. There is no problem that I'm aware of at all, but if there is a specific type of oil or a brand of oil with a certain additive pack that combats moisture from oil not reaching temperature then I'd be interested in doing it preemptively.
 
The 50 minutes on the highway once every week (or every 2 weeks) seems adequate to burn off the condensation from all the other short drives. Those small engines get up to temp pretty quickly.
 
Back when I was using conventional oils, I used primarily Valvoline or Chevron Havoline. I did use Castrol on occasions. I never noticed any sludge issues with the Valvoline or Havoline.
 
The best approach would be to do a UOA or two to provide some visibility into what's going on inside the engine, you may be getting a worked up for no reason. But if you don't want to go that route I'd personally use a fs 5/30 or even 10/30. Why would I use a full syn? Because it's better than dino at resisting oxidation. I'm not saying a dino won't work but if you're intent on changing the oil just once a year, don't be a cheapskate and spend the couple extra dollars on a SuperTech 5/30 or 10w30. (maybe even a quality HDEO could serve you well)

A high TBN oil would benefit you too...
 
Last edited:
If excessive moisture is causing sludge, you'll see it on the underside of the oil fill cap.

"maybe about 45 to 50 minutes on the highway once a week or once every two weeks."

That highway drive, and changing the oil every 5000 kms (as you are doing) is all the engine needs to keep moisture from building up to an excessive level. In my opinion, keep doing what you're doing.
 
Originally Posted by Reddy45
The 50 minutes on the highway once every week (or every 2 weeks) seems adequate to burn off the condensation from all the other short drives. Those small engines get up to temp pretty quickly.


^ This. No need to change what you're doing right now.
 
Thank you for your comments. I didn't realize that you could see sludge on the underside of your oil filler cap. Would that be the white creamy stuff that occasionally you see? I can't recall seeing it recently, but I have seen it at some point in my life. I just didn't know what it meant.

And secondly, I was not aware that synthetic oil combats oxidization better than Dino oil. I felt that because of the total mileage of the vehicle being about 5,000 km a year, that it would be a waste to use synthetic which I typically don't change for 10,000 kilometres, or once a year. But do I understand correctly that synthetic would still be better at combating oxidization and better all around even though I'll be changing it every 5,000 kilometres or basically once a year?
 
I am in different climate as you but drive is similar although mine is from retirement. Short trip of 10 to 15 miles with little hwy. 6 month oil changes (April and October). I tried Synthetic for year and as wife states I just can't justify 20.00 savings on an engine. Valvoline conventional 5w20 is a blend and a fuel economy oil and what I will run next and perceived future.
 
Like others have said, I don't think you're really doing harm with those driving tendencies. The 45 minute highway run probably helps things, and I've found that 15 minutes actually gets my car up to temp for a half decent little run (most aluminum engines get up to temp within a minute or two depending on the outside temps).

One thing I'll add with the 15 minute runs, a lot of the time with my occasional my 15 minute run, I end up leaving the place and traveling back within an hour...and the engine never really cools off.

If I was that worried about it I'd just do two oil changes a year.

I'll tell you what, I'm one of those people that drives up and down the highway 80-100 miles a day...500-600 miles a week and I'm not exactly sure I believe it's all that much better than the around town type of driving, yes it gets up to temp and stays there, but my engine speed doesn't vary much for long stretches of a commute. Never mind what happens to the paint and windshield. So if I set the cruise control at 68-72...I imagine my throttle plates stay pretty closed...lot of intake vacuum, steady engine speed. Wonder in a direct injection car if that leads to more oil consumption and valve coking?
 
Originally Posted by Verminator
Thank you for your comments. I didn't realize that you could see sludge on the underside of your oil filler cap. Would that be the white creamy stuff that occasionally you see? I can't recall seeing it recently, but I have seen it at some point in my life. I just didn't know what it meant.

And secondly, I was not aware that synthetic oil combats oxidization better than Dino oil. I felt that because of the total mileage of the vehicle being about 5,000 km a year, that it would be a waste to use synthetic which I typically don't change for 10,000 kilometres, or once a year. But do I understand correctly that synthetic would still be better at combating oxidization and better all around even though I'll be changing it every 5,000 kilometres or basically once a year?


It's normal to occasionally have a little of the beige stuff under the oil fill cap in very cold weather with short trips. If there is a lot there (say 1/2" thick or more), and it stays there even after a highway run, that is an indication of excessive moisture in the crankcase.

For 5000 km oil changes, the oil you're using is fine. The line between synthetic and conventional oils is not very distinct anymore, because the specs that modern conventional and synthetic oils have to meet are quite stringent.
 
Keep doing what you're doing. I'm in a similar situation. 7 mile commute to work. I follow the severe service schedule. Once the engine is at full operating temperature, I make sure I get on it a bit to get the oil hot.
 
Since almost all SN+ conventional 5w20 or 5w30 is really semi-syn, I don't think you have a thing to worry about with that oil. Think that's a pre-DI engine, right? Keep on keeping on, maybe running it for a decent drive every couple of weeks.
 
Originally Posted by Verminator
Thank you for your comments. I didn't realize that you could see sludge on the underside of your oil filler cap. Would that be the white creamy stuff that occasionally you see? I can't recall seeing it recently, but I have seen it at some point in my life. I just didn't know what it meant.

And secondly, I was not aware that synthetic oil combats oxidization better than Dino oil. I felt that because of the total mileage of the vehicle being about 5,000 km a year, that it would be a waste to use synthetic which I typically don't change for 10,000 kilometres, or once a year. But do I understand correctly that synthetic would still be better at combating oxidization and better all around even though I'll be changing it every 5,000 kilometres or basically once a year?

You're changing the oil what, once a year? Is the addtl $2 or 3 expense of a FULL SYNTHETIC v. a dino/dino blend going to change your life in any meaningful way? If you're genuinely worried about sludge, justifying the 3 bucks will be a no brainier.

That said, all oils, even synthetics, are susceptible to oxidation - which can lead to sludging. Synthetics however, due to their purity (less contaminants), their molecular structure (-saturated synthetic molecules v. unsaturated dino molecules) and thermal stability resist oxidation better than conventional. This is why you don't see EP dino's. This 👇 might be of interest to you..

Dino v. Synthetics - benefits

You can keep doing what you're doing and use a dino/dino blend and probably never know the difference at your mileage. But you asked for recommendations and I offered mine, what you do with it is up to you. Personally, I would spend the couple extra dollars on a synthetic for the aforementioned benefits, it's cheap insurance.

Fwiw, anyone who's seen my posts knows I use dino/blends. So I'm not bashing them. In fact I have Havoline 5w30 SB HiMi in the crankcase right now but I also change my oil 3x a year so the odds of sludge forming I my engine, which isn't a DI engine like yours, is minimal at best.

But you do you.. but as stated, I think the addtl $3 on a full syn is a wise investment. It's not even the cost of a cup of coffee at Starbucks....
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top