Oil recommendation for my BMW X3?

[TomX3]

Just got off the phone with Mobil Oil. It's confirmed Mobil 1 0w40 no longer has BMW Longlife-01 approval and is not covered under warranty. Started November 2015. Said the formulation didn't change and made it seem like BMW didn't want to certify them because they have their own BMW branded oil they want people to use.

Called Castrol and they confirmed the oils that had BMW LL-01 still have the approval but confirmed that they no longer make the BMW branded oil.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: TomX3
made it seem like BMW didn't want to certify them because they have their own BMW branded oil they want people to use.

That justification doesn't make much sense.

Just because SOPUS now supplies oil to BMW NA for service fill does not mean that no other manufacturer can produce BMW-approved oil.

 

[TomX3]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
That justification doesn't make much sense.

Just because SOPUS now supplies oil to BMW NA for service fill does not mean that no other manufacturer can produce BMW-approved oil.


I think that justification makes sense in that it's BMW's specification and they can choose to approve non BMW labeled oils or not.

What doesn't make sense is that they wouldn't give approval to Mobil 1 but would to Castrol. It could be that Castrol's approval hasn't expired yet and when it does it may not get renewed?

I can't remember where I read it but I remember someone writing something about BMW USA not wanting to approve other oils anymore.

 

[Quattro Pete]

The point I was trying to make is, what is the purpose of having a manufacturer specification if only BMW branded oil can meet it?

BMW might as well just specifically mandate the use of their BMW branded oil to maintain warranty and be done with it. No need to even publish a spec. And technically, this will not be a violation of Magnuson-Moss act either because BMW does provide all regularly scheduled maintenance during the warranty period for no additional charge.

 

[Leonardo629]

Maybe it's because of this, BMW wants to sell a lot of their own brand.

I guess I'll continue to use the stuff as long as Mobil's formulation does not change, my car likes the stuff too.

 

[TomX3]

They first published the spec years ago. They might have changed the minds. Might have been something in their agreement with Shell?

 

[RooflessVW]

The only thing worrying me is: now that it no longer carries the cert, can they change the formation without us knowing? Will it become a different/inferior oil? Or is MB229.5 more stringent and this is nothing to stress over?

 

[BrocLuno]

Certs don't lube engines - oil does. Why are you getting nutty about this... Mobil1 is prolly close to as good as it gets and they are in 10's of millions of high end cars with high strung motors.

You're out of warranty. It's you call now. They have no lever on your wallet. Walk away from the MFG marketing situation and go where you want.

Me, I'd go Pennz Ultra, but that's just me

 

[Leonardo629]

I will start worry when MB and Porsche A40 start to disappear from the labels.

 

[B320i]

With M1 gone - that leaves one less oil for me to worry about next OC, and one less oil that makes my motor turn into the "Grandfather Clock Factory"

I don't know whether it has anything to do with BMW taking the cert away, Mobil themselves may have chosen not to pursue a continued certification with BMW... Remembering that this M1 product seems to have been loosing some certs from other manufacturers in the last couple of years, too.

It could also be they changed the formulation in some way, i.e. reducing detergents, anti-wear additives and so on, which may be inappropriate from some engines in the USA due to the higher-sulfur fuels.

Whether it is just Mobil being kicked out or choosing not to renew their approval with BMW we can wait and see: Obviously their other oils certified from BMW for LL-04/LL-04-FE and the newer LL standards (I think we have LL-14 or something now, right?)

The other thing I wanted to point out is that other oil manufacturers are still working on making oils that will meet the stringent specifications of BMW.
E.g. the certifications that Penrite here in Australia holds are a few years old now - but they are still trying hard to get the approvals with Low-Saps oils and the like.*

*The only thing that concerns me is that they've made oils conforming to both BMW LL-01 and LL-98 concurrently, as well as a 0w-20 oil that supposedly meets LL-01... Like I'd use *that* in an M50 engine!

 

[ryanm8]

I wouldn't discredit the LL01 spec. MB 229.5 is a more stringent spec on paper, but in real world testing many people think the N20 wear test with LL01 is harder to pass than any real world test called for in MB 229.5.

Especially if you have a BMW, the LL01 spec is the only one that provides real world testing on a BMW engine. So, it is important.

It will be interesting to see if Castrol eventually loses the spec as well. At least then we would know the reason had more to do with licensing than a lower quality reformulation of the oil.

 

[TomX3]

I received a response to my email and want to make a correction. It's not that the oil was made before Nov 15 but if the car's production date is newer than Nov 15 they don't recommend using the M1 0w40 oil. This is exactly what they said.

"If your vehicle production year is newer than November 2015, we recommend using a dealer approved product, due to BMW testing requirements changing. "

 

[kschachn]

Yeah, I'll just use the Castrol for now until it loses LL-01, if it ever does. Bonus that it's 50 cents cheaper at Walmart. Of course my old BMW doesn't actually require the spec so I'm picking nits anyway.

I've used M1 oils almost exclusively since the late 70s. Yet somehow I don't feel a sense of loyalty

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: TomX3
I received a response to my email and want to make a correction. It's not that the oil was made before Nov 15 but if the car's production date is newer than Nov 15 they don't recommend using the M1 0w40 oil. This is exactly what they said.

"If your vehicle production year is newer than November 2015, we recommend using a dealer approved product, due to BMW testing requirements changing. "

The 2016 bmw owners manual still calls for using LL-01 oil though.

 

[TomX3]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
The 2016 bmw owners manual still calls for using LL-01 oil though.


Yep. It's just that Mobil 1 0w40 is no longer an LL01 approved oil so you can't use that.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Just because SOPUS now supplies oil to BMW NA for service fill does not mean that no other manufacturer can produce BMW-approved oil.

Agreed. It is strange. Is Mobil just annoyed with BMW for some reason, or will they get back on board down the road?

Mobil may have lost a couple factory fill contracts over the years (this wasn't them though), but pruning specs from their flagship oil isn't going to get them more contracts. It seems to be counterproductive to me. Of course, with the OP's car out of warranty, it doesn't matter much.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: TomX3
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
The 2016 bmw owners manual still calls for using LL-01 oil though.


Yep. It's just that Mobil 1 0w40 is no longer an LL01 approved oil so you can't use that.

But you can use it in a 2015 or a 2014 one that is still under warranty? Again, their explanation makes no sense to me. What has changed in November 2015? If BMW testing requirements have changed, then surely a wealthy corporation such as XOM can afford to have their flagship product retested.

We are not getting the full story here, I'm afraid.

 

[kschachn]

If it was a reformulation that occurred in haste (as was done after Katrina), then I would think it would affect other specifications besides just LL-01 - unless there's something specific and unique to LL-01. So as a guess I would say it is either a political problem with BMW or a delay of some sort in achieving the actual certification.

Which is just a guess of course. The loss of all those other "recommended for" things that disappeared are less concern to me since they weren't actual specifications anyway. For no apparent reason they dropped a bunch of them a while ago for M1 ATF.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Quote:


Mobil may have lost a couple factory fill contracts over the years (this wasn't them though), but pruning specs from their flagship oil isn't going to get them more contracts. It seems to be counterproductive to me.

Xom did drop the chrysler srt spec some time ago, supposedly due to some political bickering with chrysler. I suppose this bmw drop could be similar.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
But you can use it in a 2015 or a 2014 one that is still under warranty? Again, their explanation makes no sense to me. What has changed in November 2015? If BMW testing requirements have changed, then surely a wealthy corporation such as XOM can afford to have their flagship product retested.


They can afford it of course. It likely cost more to redesign the labels than meet that spec.