Oil Recommendation for 2006 Infiniti G35 Coupe

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Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Synthetic is largely a marketing term today when it comes to motor oils. It implies a premium product but there is very little difference between a name brand so-called conventional oil and a cheap synthetic in fact


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Your right, this engine screams for 0w40.
Mine had minor consumption issues since new and was never a really quiet engine, then i put 0w40 in it. Its a totally different engine, smoother, quieter, and no oil consumption whatsoever.

Posted UOA's of cars running 0w40 are stellar, UOA's posted on xw30 are generally not as good.
I wouldn't use xw30 again in this engine if someone gave it to me for free, i don't care if it was made with unicorn tears and high VI.
Every one of these engines i have worked on has shown an improvement with HTHS 3.5+ oils, ditto Honda V6 iVTEC engines.

Of course if your a thinner is best guy and don't even own a car with the engine theoretically everything thinner is better but in the real world it just plain sucks. Some people on this board would advocate pi$$ water if it was high enough VI. LOL
 
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Call me a contraian but I think Nissan knows how heavy an oil is required especially for strictly street use. M1 AFE 0W-30 not only meets Nissans' warranty requirements but being lighter than GC especially on start-up makes it a preferred oil choice, IMO.

I don't dispute that in the least. Myself, I wouldn't be worried so much about warranty requirements (long past), though the viscosity is worth a thought. The price is another issue, with all of us being in Canada, and the price of single GC quarts being terribly high.

My main point is there are lots of choices, thick and thin, without breaking the bank. M1 0w-40 (assuming those go on special with the other jugs, now that we have them) and M1 AFE 0w-30 and M1 5w-30 go on special often enough, as does PP 5w-30 and the like, and the various Syntec offerings, including the new 0w-40, and ordinary 5w-30, whereas the GC is a bit more of a problem that way. And, for short OCIs, there's simply nothing wrong with conventional.

Thicker oil won't hurt, nor will running the specified grade, in my view. As you know, though, I don't reward Walmart or Canadian Tire for their price gouging. I have better things to do on a Friday morning than compete with a bunch of old farts who are there to gobble up the weekly oil special the second Canadian Tire opens. I can be on here instead.
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Garak, you're one of the few members that is intellectually smart and open-minded enough to at least understand the concept of operational viscosity, dispite your lingering thicker grade preference.
But when you say a "thicker oil won't hurt, nor will running the specified grade" you're only partly right. Most engine wear occurs on start-up and during warm-up when even the specified SN
5W-30 is way heavier than optimum, a heavier grade just exacerbated the problem due to the reduced oil flow when cold. That said, the biggest factor by far that directly affects engine wear is how the vehicle is operated. If you drive the car like you stole it when cold you will greatly increase engine wear especially running the heavier oil.
Since most owners today don't pay any mind to a careful warm-up regimen, running the specified grade is the proper thing to do, but if you do keep the rev's low during warm-up especially in a cold climate (and I suspect you do) then I agree you can get away with running a heavier oil grade.

Of course my point is, why would you want to run
a grade heavier oil particularly in a conservatively driven car when there is no lubrication benefit in doing so?
My mantra is, "As light as possible, just as heavy as necessary".

P.S.

I hope this week-ends F1 race is not as boring as the season opener!
 
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
But when you say a "thicker oil won't hurt, nor will running the specified grade" you're only partly right. Most engine wear occurs on start-up and during warm-up when even the specified SN 5W-30 is way heavier than optimum, a heavier grade just exacerbated the problem due to the reduced oil flow when cold.

I recently had hands-on experience with this misconception (again) and it cost the customer quite a bit.

A diesel engine that spec's 10w30 was being used with 15w40 'cause that's what we put in everything' and '15w40 is better than 10w30 anyway'. The mfg actually allows for the use of 15w40 "above -10C". Well, come one -30C morning the problem was more than just starting or excessive wear, it was a seized camshaft.

After completing the full tear-down and rebuild everything is running fine (a shortblock was over $6k) and the customer is now very aware of what lack-of-lubrication can cost. No indication of any other issues and the only cause of failure was lack of oil flow. Viscosity and temperature go hand-in-hand.
 
Originally Posted By: martinq
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
But when you say a "thicker oil won't hurt, nor will running the specified grade" you're only partly right. Most engine wear occurs on start-up and during warm-up when even the specified SN 5W-30 is way heavier than optimum, a heavier grade just exacerbated the problem due to the reduced oil flow when cold.

I recently had hands-on experience with this misconception (again) and it cost the customer quite a bit.

A diesel engine that spec's 10w30 was being used with 15w40 'cause that's what we put in everything' and '15w40 is better than 10w30 anyway'. The mfg actually allows for the use of 15w40 "above -10C". Well, come one -30C morning the problem was more than just starting or excessive wear, it was a seized camshaft.

After completing the full tear-down and rebuild everything is running fine (a shortblock was over $6k) and the customer is now very aware of what lack-of-lubrication can cost. No indication of any other issues and the only cause of failure was lack of oil flow. Viscosity and temperature go hand-in-hand.


At -30C, the 10w-30 is still too thick IMHO, you are running very close to the potential pumping limit of the lubricant. A 5w or 0w (30 or 40) meeting the appropriate manufacturer requirements/approvals would be the best choice in that situation.

A few years back our local county plow trucks were all converted to extended drains on Delvac 1 5w-40 (from 15w-40 dino). The results were excellent from what a friend of mine who serviced them told me.
 
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Garak, you're one of the few members that is intellectually smart and open-minded enough to at least understand the concept of operational viscosity, dispite your lingering thicker grade preference. But when you say a "thicker oil won't hurt, nor will running the specified grade" you're only partly right.

I'm biased about a lot of things. Thin oils, thick oils, monogrades, mixing, you name it.
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As you're well aware, I do pay attention to HTHS, and just about anything on the market is "too thick" at ambient temperatures. I concern myself with HTHS, cold cranking/MRV numbers, and then VI, when it comes to viscosity stuff. When I say that thicker oil doesn't hurt, of course, you know those comments are qualified. It doesn't mean starting it unaided in -40 C and then hitting the highway with the pedal to the metal. It doesn't mean there isn't a fuel economy penalty, because there certainly is, albeit impossible for an ordinary person to measure. As for wear, with proper driving habits, it isn't much of a concern, as you note. We simply don't see a lot of worn out engines. We also have to be aware what is causing the wear, and it isn't just because the viscosity is out of whack at startup, which is technically the case with everything out there.

Basically, something can work, but not be "optimal," and our "best" choices always have to be qualified. There are many alternatives that will work in such a vehicle, all the way from Walmart Canada's Tune It 5w-30 to an expensive API/ILSAC synthetic to something in the way of boutiques. There's lots one can get away with, including a 0w-20 if it's driven a mile per day or a monograde 30 if the thing is never shut off. That doesn't mean either choice is advisable for the average driver.

As for the race, I wasn't completely disappointed. I wanted to see how the new cars and new drivers would fare, and I got to see some interesting things. Lotus and Manor had a terrible weekend, so we didn't learn a lot from that, other than the fact that Bernie and Romain and Pastor were mad.

martinq: That's where it does make sense to pay attention to temperatures. 15w-40 in -30 C is never a great idea (aside from oil pan heaters, I suppose). Certain vehicles will start when it's way too cold out for the oil in the sump, as anyone with a good battery and a vehicle with a carb will tell you in this province when it's -40 C outside, even with 10w-30. My Audi allowed for 15w-40 down to -20 C. It was out of the sump before it went even below freezing.

10w-30 is the usual call for North American diesels in that cold weather, yes, but as Overkill points out, caution is needed. My dad always ran 10w-30 in his diesels in winter, plugged in, but when it got that darned cold, he just used one of the gassers. If one is pushing the weather, one has to be prepared. To make matters worse, back in the day, synthetic HDEOs were a little uncommon. But, as I stated, one makes due with what one can, and compensates in other areas.

You don't need the best 0w-XX on the market to handle winter. There are ways around it. But, on the same token, running a 10w-XX, 15w-XX, or 20w-XX in our winters is done at one's own peril, and with some careful planning and preparations.
 
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Garak, you're one of the few members that is intellectually smart and open-minded enough to at least understand the concept of operational viscosity, dispite your lingering thicker grade preference.
But when you say a "thicker oil won't hurt, nor will running the specified grade" you're only partly right. Most engine wear occurs on start-up and during warm-up when even the specified SN
5W-30 is way heavier than optimum, a heavier grade just exacerbated the problem due to the reduced oil flow when cold.


The empty oil galleries will fill at exactly the same rate with a 5W as a 0W at anything that's not testing the low temperature pumpability limits of the oils in question...

At which time, the lubricant is there..full stop...and if you look at the Stribeck curve, more viscosity is more parts separation...zero contact lubrication....it doesn't matter that the pump is in bypass, the bearings draw what they need from the galleries...simple physics (which I've demonstrated numerically and graphically many times, which you call obfuscation)

The issue is as the lubricant thins out, and the additives aren't functional...that's the nature of the Sequence IV wear tests, the industry standard for warm-up wear.

That's why I keep asking you to provide any evidence that you have regarding your position...i.e. how 0W, and high VI oils work better in these industry standard start/warm up tests...a request that you ignore every single time, while spouting your mantra.

You, and oil University 101 keep on with this ideal that a lubricant requires the same viscosity across the temperature range...however, such a lubricant would require additives that were fully functional the entire spectrum of temperatures...the lubricants would be running cold, in boundary conditions, with non functional additives.

Anyway, back to you providing evidence of 0W, and high VI producing superior results in Sequence IV...again...and I presume the sound of crickets chirping.
 
You are obfuscating the issue.
When the oil pump is in by-pass, oil flow is of course reduced through the entire engine. Even if the bearings are already primed, on a cold start the rest of the engine is being supplied with a reduced amount of oil.

How often is the oil pump in bypass? Depending on the engine that will happen even at room temperature with a low VI 40 grade oil on idle. Reduced oil flow compromises lubrication.
If one chooses to run a grade heavier oil than specified, every time you start a cold engine it will spend more time during warm-up in bypass with reduced oil flow than it would otherwise.
Is that a problem? As I've already explained, driving conservatively keeping the rev's low during warm-up will mitigate the situation but it is an issue that members should be aware of.
So unless one is seeing very high oil temp's as a result of lots of WOT driving like at the time track I'd think twice about running a heavier than spec'd oil grade. It's not just about fuel economy.
 
Originally Posted By: martinq
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
But when you say a "thicker oil won't hurt, nor will running the specified grade" you're only partly right. Most engine wear occurs on start-up and during warm-up when even the specified SN 5W-30 is way heavier than optimum, a heavier grade just exacerbated the problem due to the reduced oil flow when cold.

I recently had hands-on experience with this misconception (again) and it cost the customer quite a bit.

A diesel engine that spec's 10w30 was being used with 15w40 'cause that's what we put in everything' and '15w40 is better than 10w30 anyway'. The mfg actually allows for the use of 15w40 "above -10C". Well, come one -30C morning the problem was more than just starting or excessive wear, it was a seized camshaft.

After completing the full tear-down and rebuild everything is running fine (a shortblock was over $6k) and the customer is now very aware of what lack-of-lubrication can cost. No indication of any other issues and the only cause of failure was lack of oil flow. Viscosity and temperature go hand-in-hand.


This was not a case of "thicker..." oil causing a problem. The WRONG oil was used, period. The cold temperature viscosity rating , the 15w part... means something... !

Expensive lesson for somebody...
 
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Looks like some of you guys got tangled up in a CATERHAM web.

You're going to be mixing a CATERHAM blend next to see how quiet it is in your 3800, admit it.
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Originally Posted By: Garak
You're going to be mixing a CATERHAM blend next to see how quiet it is in your 3800, admit it.
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I might be trying M1 0W-40, so I suppose that's half the CATERHAM blend.
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Originally Posted By: geeman789
This was not a case of "thicker..." oil causing a problem. The WRONG oil was used, period. The cold temperature viscosity rating , the 15w part... means something... !

For the ambient temperature of the time, yes it was certainly too thick. The mfg states that 15w40 is acceptable for use over -10C. So, it's not the wrong oil for this engine even though the spec oil is 10w30 for all specified temperatures.
 
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM

You are obfuscating the issue.
When the oil pump is in by-pass, oil flow is of course reduced through the entire engine. Even if the bearings are already primed, on a cold start the rest of the engine is being supplied with a reduced amount of oil.


The galleries are primed and full, and there is plenty of pressure...the engine will draw from that everything that it needs...it's there...it's not needed, so the backpressure is higher.

Provided that it's reasonably pumpable, the empty galleries, being filled with air are cleared at the same rate regardless before that backpressure is extant.

Nothing is being deprived by the pump being in bypass.

You (and 101) seem to have this notion that 100% of the oil has to be jammed through the engine to provide lubrication...it shows that you have none of the fundamentals sorted in your "science".

I'm happy to be convinced by you bringing some science to the table, but you ignore each and every request to demonstrate it.
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
We could paint it up as the fuel economy pinata, then, and that's a tougher argument.
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True, there's always fuel economy, but again, the claims being made for ultra high VI (like 4% better than other 0W20s) are completely out there.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM

You are obfuscating the issue.
When the oil pump is in by-pass, oil flow is of course reduced through the entire engine. Even if the bearings are already primed, on a cold start the rest of the engine is being supplied with a reduced amount of oil.


The galleries are primed and full, and there is plenty of pressure...the engine will draw from that everything that it needs...it's there...it's not needed, so the backpressure is higher.

Provided that it's reasonably pumpable, the empty galleries, being filled with air are cleared at the same rate regardless before that backpressure is extant.

Nothing is being deprived by the pump being in bypass.

You (and 101) seem to have this notion that 100% of the oil has to be jammed through the engine to provide lubrication...it shows that you have none of the fundamentals sorted in your "science".

I'm happy to be convinced by you bringing some science to the table, but you ignore each and every request to demonstrate it.

No, you continue to obfuscate the issue.
It's not just about the bearings being full of oil but rather oil flow itself. And when the oil pump is in bypass mode oil less oil is flowing through the engine. That's less oil getting to camshaft lobes, less oil to the cylinder walls, less oil flowing everywhere; consequently lubrication has been compromised.
 
Originally Posted By: martinq
Originally Posted By: geeman789
This was not a case of "thicker..." oil causing a problem. The WRONG oil was used, period. The cold temperature viscosity rating , the 15w part... means something... !

For the ambient temperature of the time, yes it was certainly too thick. The mfg states that 15w40 is acceptable for use over -10C. So, it's not the wrong oil for this engine even though the spec oil is 10w30 for all specified temperatures.


THICK is a description that no longer applies when something becomes SOLID... !

I know a guy who also won't run anything "thinner..." than a 15w40... ever. I showed him some Rotella T6 0w40... he laughed and said ...

" A ZERO weight oil in this truck... you got to be kidding...! "
 
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
No, you continue to obfuscate the issue.
It's not just about the bearings being full of oil but rather oil flow itself. And when the oil pump is in bypass mode oil less oil is flowing through the engine. That's less oil getting to camshaft lobes, less oil to the cylinder walls, less oil flowing everywhere; consequently lubrication has been compromised.


Sorry CATERHAM, but in that single post you have demonstrated that you don't understand the subject matter at all.

Flow doesn't lubricate anything.
 
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