Oil for running in? Dino then switch to syn?

[blakey]

When bedding-in the rings on a new motorcycle, is it advantageous to run conventional (dino) oil then switch to synthetic after say, 3,000 miles?
I'm thinking that if you run synthetic from the start, it'll take much longer to bed-in the rings?
Although...I have heard that a few manufacturers use synthetic from the get-go?
Am I over thinking it?

Thanks.

 

[ZeeOSix]

I always run non-synthetic until the bike is broken in, then switch to synthetic at 3000-5000 miles. My Busa didn't like Mobil full synthetic m/c oil, burned more than non synthetic Valvoline, so went back to conventional Valvoline.

 

[BigCahuna]

Pretty much every brand new motorcycle from the factory is broken in. They test run them at the factory and go thru everything motor related, so they know it will work, for the most part when the customer gets it. They tell you to take it easy for the first 500 miles or so, I believe for warranty purposes. I'm sure they know there will be less issues, if people don't hammer on it right out of the box.,,

 

[troop]

I always run the included oil for about 100 miles then dump it. Refill with dino oil and run to around 750 miles. Next oil change is synthetic. YMMV..

 

[Propflux01]

Why? Where is it proven that synthetic is somehow 'slipperier": than a conventional?

 

[Jetronic]

Pretty much every brand new motorcycle from the factory is broken in. They test run them at the factory and go thru everything motor related, so they know it will work, for the most part when the customer gets it. They tell you to take it easy for the first 500 miles or so, I believe for warranty purposes. I'm sure they know there will be less issues, if people don't hammer on it right out of the box.,,

you mean, if people run them in before hammering?

 

[Ride_Red]

When bedding-in the rings on a new motorcycle, is it advantageous to run conventional (dino) oil then switch to synthetic after say, 3,000 miles?
I'm thinking that if you run synthetic from the start, it'll take much longer to bed-in the rings?
Although...I have heard that a few manufacturers use synthetic from the get-go?
Am I over thinking it?

Thanks.

What motorcycle are we talking about? I know that some motorcycles have specific requirements and others aren't picky. The owner's manual should tell you the basic requirements for the type of oil that should be used.

My Honda owners manuals state SG or later, 10W-30 or 10W-40, non energy conserving. This is an easy spec to meet. I used the factory fill for the first few hundred miles, then changed with Honda GN4 conventional oil until the 600 mile service. I only used the Honda branded GN4 oil because I had the dealership throw in a gallon of oil and a filter with the purchase of the motorcycle. Then I put in whatever synthetic oil I want. It's usually either Mobil 1, Valvoline or Castrol from Walmart and an automotive oil filter.

I think the general reason to use a conventional oil during break-in is that it is less expensive and will be changed rather quickly. Why waste money on expensive oil if you are only going to use it for a few hundred miles.

 

[Ride_Red]

Pretty much every brand new motorcycle from the factory is broken in. They test run them at the factory and go thru everything motor related, so they know it will work, for the most part when the customer gets it. They tell you to take it easy for the first 500 miles or so, I believe for warranty purposes. I'm sure they know there will be less issues, if people don't hammer on it right out of the box.,,

Also part of the break-in process is to mate the gears in the transmission and bed the brake pads to the rotors. This takes time and miles on a new bike. The manufacturer runs the engines before delivery, but the break-in process is still happening over the first few hundred miles.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

When bedding-in the rings on a new motorcycle, is it advantageous to run conventional (dino) oil then switch to synthetic after say, 3,000 miles?
I'm thinking that if you run synthetic from the start, it'll take much longer to bed-in the rings?
Although...I have heard that a few manufacturers use synthetic from the get-go?
Am I over thinking it?

Thanks.

Problem is many new conventional oil have slickifiers for better gas mileage ratings.
But if you could get some old school bike oil that is NOT ILSAC dual rated and is JASO MA2 for wet clutch operation then I would say go for it. 1.5K > 2k miles of proper runnin-in should do it.

only select superbike engines have extensive testing and wear-in at the factory.

 

[Ride_Red]

Problem is many new conventional oil have slickifiers for better gas mileage ratings.
But if you could get some old school bike oil that is NOT ILSAC dual rated and is JASO MA2 for wet clutch operation then I would say go for it. 1.5K > 2k miles of proper runnin-in should do it.

only select superbike engines have extensive testing and wear-in at the factory.

There are a number of conventional motorcycle oils available on the market. Easy to find at Walmart, Autozone, local dealership, etc. Pick one that meets the specs in the owners manual and you are good to go. I've used Valvoline conventional motorcycle oil from Walmart and it was just fine. Honda GN4 is good stuff also. Yamalube and Kawasaki conventional oil are good too. I've seen 5000 mile OCI lab results on other forums that showed many conventional oils were good to go. It's hard to find a bad oil from a major manufacturer these days.

 

[sunruh]

blakey,
there are many variables to consider on breaking in a new engine beyond just the rings.
yes that is important, but not the only one to consider and it greatly matters depending on the motor which you didnt mention and has been asked for.

ie. sohc or dohc or pushrod? drysump or wetsump? shared tranny or not?

IF (big if) the manufacture did start and break in the motor (a few even do this on a dyno) then much less is needed by you.
the real question becomes...do you trust what the manufacture/dealership supposedly did or not?

rings - yes
tranny - yes (if shared)
cam lobes - yes as well

and the motor needs to be accelerated up the rpm range going up a hill...u-turn...and then in gear coast it back down the hill.
building pressure on the rings going up and flushing the cylinder walls going down. but there are as many ideas on this as there are people talking about it.

and yes dump the original oil at 100miles...conventional replacement and filter...and again at 500mi and you should be good to switch synth.

 

[DGXR]

Many manufacturers use synthetic engine oil as factory fill. This is not a problem. Synthetic oil is a better lubricant than conventional oil but synthetic does not prevent engine parts from wearing in. Synthetic is better at resisting thermal breakdown (high temperatures), it flows better at very low temperatures, is more shear-stable, and (as stated) lubricates slightly better. Those are the main benefits to synthetic. Also, synthetic oils often have a better additive package but not always. So, synthetic oil *can* be run for longer service intervals than conventional, all else being equal. I agree with the above statement from sunruh about using high engine vacuum (long deceleration runs in gear) when wearing in a new or rebuilt gasoline engine. This is still a good practice even with a well worn engine.

 

[totegoat]

My new motorcycles always come with oil, ready to ride. Follow the owner's manual.

 

[blakey]

The bike in question will be a Benelli TRK502X. Twin cylinder, liquid cooled, DOHC, shared oil supply with the gearbox.

Been riding a while so the running-in procedure is sorted; I was just wondering if the rings will take much longer to bed if using synthetic from new.

Thanks for your input!

 

[benjy]

most "synthetics" aka group III are just highly processed dino oils BUT redline a real synthetic notes a break-in period!!

 

[BusyLittleShop]

No matter the oil proper break in requires high rpms...

If you cutaway a piston, ring and cylinder wall and inspect under magnification you see something
to the effect of "saw teeth"... Given that a film of lubricating oil holds the piston ring away
from the cylinder wall. Proper break-in of piston ring to cylinder wall requires that the ring rupture
or break through this oil film and make contact with the cylinder wall. During such "metal to metal"
contact, the little peaks on the ring face and cylinder wall become white hot and rub off. This
condition will continue to occur until the ring face and cylinder wall have established a smooth
compatible surface between each other. At this point, break-in is said to be relatively complete and
very little metal-to-metal contact will occur hereafter. In fact, as the break-in process
progresses, the degree of metal-to-metal contact will regress.


How do you know if break is done??? take a compression test... if your
engine shows factory compression then break in is complete... if your
engine shows less than factory compression then more break in is
require... more B.M.E.P. (Brake Mean Effective Pressure)

 

[nomas]

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[NitroM3]

Ok so where did the OP indicate the type of finish hone to the cylinder. Did I miss it somewhere? If it was rebuilt what are the ring types used? Did I miss that as well? And is it a factory piston or aftermarket. If aftermarket who's is it so the material of its composition can be found? Did I miss that as well? Maybe?
Lots of good responses but they are all over the map and perhaps a couple may even fit depending on ^^^^^
I would like to see some DATA that indicates an engine will break in faster or slower with a synthetic or none synthetic motor oil or for that matter using none synthetic and none detergent motor oil HA! ?
When I rebuilt performance engines (Any weather Performance machine Shop) some customers using the engines in competition events wanted a guarantee power output. So I had to run them up complete with the customers induction and exhaust system going be to used installed on the engine in the engine DYNO room for a few hours and document the output. Some motors had none synthetic and some synthetic. Neither broke in faster then the other or performed better at supporting higher engines output.

Compression readings on a new engine or a rebuilt engine with rings only does not indicate break in unless you are backing up the compression reading with scoping the cylinder walls. Compression reading can be deceiving if you glazed your cylinder walls during you break in procedure.

I was one of the local shops that was contracted by Suzuki for a short time when some of their model under warranty would smoke. This was generally from a customer that did not use a better thought out break in period. Most motorcycle manufacture do NOT break in the engines. Not sure where that information ever came from? The Suzuki's were easy to fix the smoking engines. After scoping the engines and performing a proper compression test followed up by a leak down to confirm that the engine was actually healthy the fun began. I or my freind both accomplished riders and also both of us raced during that period of my life would run these smoking bikes up to red line for several mile. On these bike that was between 130 to about 160 mph. Smoking engine fixed!!!! LOL The rings seated as they should have confirmed with repeated the pre tests.

 

[NitroM3]

you mean, if people run them in before hammering?

You made my morning this was funny ^^