Oil for heavily tuned 335d (w/o ecology)

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w1lq

w1lq

Joined
May 3, 2017
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5
Location
Poland
Hi guys,

I'm driving a tuned '08 335d running 400 bhp. The car has been modded to accomodate that power by adding a large FMIC, blanking off the EGR and removing the DPF in favour of a 100 cpsi sport cat. Now my only problem is the fact that the engine will be running a lot hotter than originally designed, especially that I drive rather aggresively and I intend to track it from time to time. It does not help that the 335d is equipped only with a heat exchanger instead of a full blown oil radiator.

Therefore, I'd like go for a 5w40 fully synthetic oil with a rather high HTHS. My priority is engine protection, period.

Would you have any recommendations in regards to oil? I'm uncertain if I ought to follow the BMW LL01 norm or I should look for something with newer API Cx norms?

I can get pretty much anything from AMSOIL or PENRITE to SHELL or MOBIL (with some exceptions we have here in Europe).
 
I can't answer your question but approve of your setup.
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Pics?
 
Pretty interesting application.
How much boost pressure? What kind of exhaust temperature does the engine reach? Air-air intercooling?

Without knowing much else, I suggest Red Line 15w40. Forget 5w40's. Fully synthetic 15w40 will have higher HTHS and be more shear resistant.
If you can replace the oil heat exchanger with a dedicated air-air oil cooler, do that. This would also decrease heat load on the main coolant radiator.
 
Considering you do not have EGR/DPF and SCR you can run heavy duty diesel oil.
I see you are in Poland. I would run Mobil1 0W40 ESP.
 
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Amsoil...several selections of stout diesel oils, including 5w40 and 15w40, with HTHS above 4.0.
 
Are there any resonable pros in going for a heavy duty diesel oil? Aren't those dedicated to low rpm engine applications? Isn't it bad that the heavy duty oils are not certified in the ACEA Ax/Bx range (tho that redline is :D). My current peak torque would be somewhere between 4-4.5k rpm so thats the range in which the oil will get a run for the money.

Wouldn't it better to go for an oil with a higher tbn and ash contents than that Mobil? I've always though that diesel oils should prioritize high tbn, but I'm such a newbie in regards to oils (lol, thats why I came here).

Yeah - being in Poland means i get the taste of a continental climate - i.e. temps ranging anywhere from -30 to +30 degrees C, so I dont think a 15w40 oil would suffice (tho thats seems as a superb oil - tho a bit on the expensive side)- at least not in a daily driver - and this strives to be one. But I also don't think i need to go to 0w40
wink.gif


Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Pretty interesting application.
How much boost pressure? What kind of exhaust temperature does the engine reach? Air-air intercooling?


Thanks, well we don't see many performance diesels around - exluding some of the Audis
wink.gif


In regards to the boost pressure I get to about max of 3 bars (2.75-3 bar range)

I can't get the exhaust temps, I'd have to dyno the car to measure it and get the numbers. Worse, BMW ensured that I am devoid of any means of telling the oil temperatures - not to mention that you have to get through a lot of hassle to get the water temps. I am working on getting either analogue gauges with water and oil temps or an awron display which will tell me just that on a basis of ecu calculation (I know it's an approximation but i guess it will be good enough, no need to go radical). For the time being, I know the M57 engine tends to get overly hot when pushed, to the point where a couple of engines have seized under big load.

Yep, it's air - air intercooled. In fact, I'm running a substantially larger version of the stock FMIC. Dedicated oil coolers are a thing on my list. I will not do any serious tracking utill I get this sorted.

To put things into perspective, I'm currently running approx 400 bhp and a bit over 555 lbf of torque and if I can get the temps under control I can go substantially higher. Fun fact, I still get 33 mpg while going 60mph.

Originally Posted By: eljefino
I can't answer your question but approve of your setup.
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Pics?


Disregard those terrible wheels, I'm currently doing a suspension overhaul to change the geometry and get some proper thick tires and light wheels in there.

33117733392_1496a3eef8_z.jpg

33117732922_f5612f4a87_z.jpg

32458652233_06c62944a9_z.jpg


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Some additional questions - are the archoil additives any good - they seem super popular over here and many people advised to go LL01 oil with archoil (tho I am not really convinced).

So.. knowing a bit more about the car and keeping in mind that engine protection is the key priority.. would you have any additional insights?
 
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I have a (slightly by comparison) tuned X5 35d (2009) - about 307hp, 483 ft-lb, with similar "exhaust modifications". I am using my last bit of Mobil Delvac 1 5W30 LE, which I switched to from the original LL04 (based on ACEA C3) oil long before the mods, because UOAs showed severe TBN depletion even at an OCI of 10000mi (16000km), also high Fe numbers. I would run away from LL04 as quickly as possible.
I am going to use Mobil Delvac 1 SHC 5W40 but I have a huge supply of it, about 190L (mainly for my Unimog which takes almost 30L). This oil has about double the Zn/P of the LL04 oil and also a starting TBN of 15.2. I believe you can only buy Euro spec 10ppm S fuel in Poland but if you go east that is a different story.
I would use either a LL01 oil like Mobil 1 0W40 or a good ACEA E4/MB228.5 diesel oil, with high TBN and Zn.

Charlie
 
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Mobil Delvac 1 5w40 would be my first choice, with Schaeffer 9000 5w40 and Shell Rotella T6 5w40 shortly behind it. All have excellent starting TBN & TBN retention, high HT/HS and a good level of ZDDP for that application.
 
Well we have a Delvac 1 5w40 in Europe but it does not seem to be on par with the Delvac 1 5w30 LE. Both Rotella and Schaeffer are not available in Europe.

Yes, as with every EU country we have only the 10ppm spec fuel in Poland.
Any recommendations for an E4 oil?

I've found that Mobil supplies this in Europe - 0w40 Turbo Diesel Oil

BTW - aren't those truck oils designed for low rpm applications, how will that translate to a high reving (for a diesel) engine? There is a persistent idea over here that heavy duty oils are not suitable to modern passanger diesels which are considered fragile.
 
Originally Posted By: w1lq
Well we have a Delvac 1 5w40 in Europe but it does not seem to be on par with the Delvac 1 5w30 LE. Both Rotella and Schaeffer are not available in Europe.

Yes, as with every EU country we have only the 10ppm spec fuel in Poland.
Any recommendations for an E4 oil?

I've found that Mobil supplies this in Europe - 0w40 Turbo Diesel Oil

BTW - aren't those truck oils designed for low rpm applications, how will that translate to a high reving (for a diesel) engine? There is a persistent idea over here that heavy duty oils are not suitable to modern passanger diesels which are considered fragile.


It is all a matter of viscosity
A 5W40 is a 5W40, and so on.
You don't want to high rev an engine when a 15W40 or 20W50 or 60 is cold.
My climate is similar to yours except not quite so warm in the summer, maybe 26C maximum
I find 5W40 quite satisfactory for Unimog (low rev) and BMW (same as yours - does yours have an 8spd or 6 spd?)
People use 10W60 in M3 and M5 that rev to 7000rpm - as long as it is warmed up.
As mentioned, Mobil 1 0W40 comes with at least 3 names, all identical. It is very close to an E4 oil and if I was low 5L in the Unimog and that was all I could find I would use it.
But the best might be Delvac 1 5W40 plain or SHC, at least for Mobil. There are lots of other good brands in Europe.

Is your SCR = urea injection deleted or did you not have it at all? If it is still installed extra phosphorus or even sulfur (in detergent = TBN additives) in E4 type oils will poison it.

Check the MB228.5 list for good E4 oils
http://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/228.5_en.html

A Polish E4 oil:
http://www.orlenoil.pl/EN/OurOffer/Produ...EME_10W-40.aspx
Charlie
 
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I would not use anything less than a 10w oil if you are going to give it a hiding or track it. I modded a Nissan SR20 to nearly 400hp at the wheels and spun it to 8,000rpm everytime I drove it - after 7 years in this state of tune it was still going strong when I sold it last year. I used Motul 300V Chrono 10w/40 and also had a dedicated oil cooler.

For the track I would even suggest a 15w40 or 15w50. Again the Motul 300V 15w50 Competition would be my choice (again assuming suitable for your motor) or equivalent offerings from Amsoil etc would also be good. I used the Motul after following a Skylines forum here in Australia and some of the highly modded GTR's were spinning bearings with lesser oils.

Initially I used Mobil 1 5w/50 when the motor was stock but with turbo back exhaust system and ended up with scuffed cams and followers after tracking it (no oil cooler). I changed the oil before and after every track day. The 5w/50 also lost a lot of oil pressure on the cool down lap so I can only assume it sheared and lost film strength. I'm not suggesting the Mobil 1 5w/50 was ever a great spec'd oil to start with but I would have thought it could handle a mildly modded stock engine on a track day.

If you are going to track it I would strongly suggest an oil cooler be fitted.

Edit - A quick check reveals the Motul oils mention above are suitable for diesels.

Good luck.

Pic of the engine bay the day I sold it last year.

 
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FWIW, my brother also tried Mobil 1 0W/40 in his twin turbo LS2 and in this motor the oil pressure gauge showed oil pressure dropped to zero at hot idle with an oil cooler fitted!!! He has used Castrol Edge 10w/60 ever since and has been fine for the last 11 years with the twin turbos and this state of tune.
 
Originally Posted By: juggernaut
FWIW, my brother also tried Mobil 1 0W/40 in his twin turbo LS2 and in this motor the oil pressure gauge showed oil pressure dropped to zero at hot idle with an oil cooler fitted!!! He has used Castrol Edge 10w/60 ever since and has been fine for the last 11 years with the twin turbos and this state of tune.


Interesting. I didn't know the cold weather rating worked that way. It sounds more like a hot viscosity problem to me.
 
Thanks for your inputs guys
smile.gif


Originally Posted By: m37charlie

Is your SCR = urea injection deleted or did you not have it at all? If it is still installed extra phosphorus or even sulfur (in detergent = TBN additives) in E4 type oils will poison it.


I'm one of the lucky [censored] who didn't have it in the first place
wink.gif


@juggernaut

Oh yeah mate, I'm not even thinking about tracking till I get my oil coolers sorted and an oil temp display set up. When I do that I think about going to bump it a notch and go 5w50 like you suggest.

Currently I'm on the fence between: Delvac 5w40 plain (SHC is sooo difficult to get here, doable but I don't really want the hassle) or Amsoil 5w40 DEO -> [Amsoil link removed]
 
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Originally Posted By: w1lq
Thanks for your inputs guys
smile.gif


Originally Posted By: m37charlie

Is your SCR = urea injection deleted or did you not have it at all? If it is still installed extra phosphorus or even sulfur (in detergent = TBN additives) in E4 type oils will poison it.


I'm one of the lucky [censored] who didn't have it in the first place
wink.gif


@juggernaut

Oh yeah mate, I'm not even thinking about tracking till I get my oil coolers sorted and an oil temp display set up. When I do that I think about going to bump it a notch and go 5w50 like you suggest.

Currently I'm on the fence between: Delvac 5w40 plain (SHC is sooo difficult to get here, doable but I don't really want the hassle) or Amsoil 5w40 DEO ->[Amsoil link removed]

E90 335d is Euro V compliant, which means no SCR only DPF.
 
Im pretty sure mine is only Euro IV compliant as it's a pre-LCI version.
 
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: juggernaut
FWIW, my brother also tried Mobil 1 0W/40 in his twin turbo LS2 and in this motor the oil pressure gauge showed oil pressure dropped to zero at hot idle with an oil cooler fitted!!! He has used Castrol Edge 10w/60 ever since and has been fine for the last 11 years with the twin turbos and this state of tune.


Interesting. I didn't know the cold weather rating worked that way. It sounds more like a hot viscosity problem to me.


The problem is, a 40 weight oil is having to flow to meet the 0W rating. This is also the point I was making about Mobil 1 5W/50 in my car. Such oil is all well and good in your daily driver but compromised in modified motors making double to triple the stock hp that are driven hard. I think GM normally recommends 5W/30 in their V8's but a 15w/50 if they are tracked.

IMO the larger the spread between the two specs the more compromised the oil will be when pushed.
 
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