If you want to stick with one brand, go with Mobil 1 5W-30 in the Outback. Although I’d probably go with conventional oil since synthetic isn’t “required”. Back when Subaru didn’t require synthetic in most engines, people generally switched to synthetic at 10k miles since uoa wear metals were still high up until then. It probably doesn’t matter though.
Oil for a new Subaru 3.6r, 1st. change?
- Thread starter tommymac
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First off I'd like to thank ALL of those who replied to my inquiry. There is a lot of good information here and I appreciate it!
Originally Posted By: SubieRubyRoo
Charger, the 3.6 does NOT require the 23-24psi bypass valve that the EJ25s do. Wix specs a 51334 for the 3.6, which is 8-11psi, and 57712 for the 2.5, which is 23psi. If you want to use Tokyo Roki that's fine, but Wix makes an engine-correct filter for either application.
Wix 57712 - 2.5
Wix 51334 - 3.6R
Thanks for this! Would the NAPA Gold have the same specs?
Originally Posted By: njohnson
Here is what I am talking about.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdC5s28Fmf0
Very informative video. It seems if Subaru is filling the 3.6 with Mobil One in Canada from new, I should be fine going to it or a comparable 5w-30 for my first change. I guess I'd like to use the best thats out there in the same price range. I'll have to spend more time looking at whats available at my local Walmart...But then there are these takes on when to switch...
Originally Posted By: bluesubie
If you want to stick with one brand, go with Mobil 1 5W-30 in the Outback. Although I’d probably go with conventional oil since synthetic isn’t “required”. Back when Subaru didn’t require synthetic in most engines, people generally switched to synthetic at 10k miles since uoa wear metals were still high up until then. It probably doesn’t matter though.
I kind of agree with waiting until 10k as well. I would like to go to synthetic before winter though, especially since it seems Subaru puts it in the 3.6 from day 1 in Canada. I think the important thing is to get the original oil out soon. I do agree with the thought process that the wear metals are high in the first few miles in any new engine.
Originally Posted By: NormanBuntz
So many of the commenters here don't realize the Subaru 3.6L calls for 5w-30, unlike the 2.5L that calls for 0w-20. If the 3.6 calls for the same 6,000 mile change interval as the 2.5, I'd just wait until 6K and then start using the synthetic 5w-30 of your choice. Personally I like SOPUS products when they're on sale.
Its hard to argue with this...I always used T-6 if it was available in the weight I needed. I would like to stay with a 5w-30 especially for warranty purposes. Bottom line with all of the excellent suggestions right now I think I'll go something like Havoline 5-30 for the next change then switch to a synthetic, it should have about 4500 miles on it and just before fall sets in again. Not sure if I'm more OR less confused at this point. Thanks again for all if the great information.
Good Luck and Happy Motoring.
Originally Posted By: SubieRubyRoo
Charger, the 3.6 does NOT require the 23-24psi bypass valve that the EJ25s do. Wix specs a 51334 for the 3.6, which is 8-11psi, and 57712 for the 2.5, which is 23psi. If you want to use Tokyo Roki that's fine, but Wix makes an engine-correct filter for either application.
Wix 57712 - 2.5
Wix 51334 - 3.6R
Thanks for this! Would the NAPA Gold have the same specs?
Originally Posted By: njohnson
Here is what I am talking about.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdC5s28Fmf0
Very informative video. It seems if Subaru is filling the 3.6 with Mobil One in Canada from new, I should be fine going to it or a comparable 5w-30 for my first change. I guess I'd like to use the best thats out there in the same price range. I'll have to spend more time looking at whats available at my local Walmart...But then there are these takes on when to switch...
Originally Posted By: bluesubie
If you want to stick with one brand, go with Mobil 1 5W-30 in the Outback. Although I’d probably go with conventional oil since synthetic isn’t “required”. Back when Subaru didn’t require synthetic in most engines, people generally switched to synthetic at 10k miles since uoa wear metals were still high up until then. It probably doesn’t matter though.
I kind of agree with waiting until 10k as well. I would like to go to synthetic before winter though, especially since it seems Subaru puts it in the 3.6 from day 1 in Canada. I think the important thing is to get the original oil out soon. I do agree with the thought process that the wear metals are high in the first few miles in any new engine.
Originally Posted By: NormanBuntz
So many of the commenters here don't realize the Subaru 3.6L calls for 5w-30, unlike the 2.5L that calls for 0w-20. If the 3.6 calls for the same 6,000 mile change interval as the 2.5, I'd just wait until 6K and then start using the synthetic 5w-30 of your choice. Personally I like SOPUS products when they're on sale.
Its hard to argue with this...I always used T-6 if it was available in the weight I needed. I would like to stay with a 5w-30 especially for warranty purposes. Bottom line with all of the excellent suggestions right now I think I'll go something like Havoline 5-30 for the next change then switch to a synthetic, it should have about 4500 miles on it and just before fall sets in again. Not sure if I'm more OR less confused at this point. Thanks again for all if the great information.
Good Luck and Happy Motoring.
Originally Posted By: tommymac
Originally Posted By: SubieRubyRoo
Charger, the 3.6 does NOT require the 23-24psi bypass valve that the EJ25s do. Wix specs a 51334 for the 3.6, which is 8-11psi, and 57712 for the 2.5, which is 23psi. If you want to use Tokyo Roki that's fine, but Wix makes an engine-correct filter for either application.
Wix 57712 - 2.5
Wix 51334 - 3.6R
Thanks for this! Would the NAPA Gold have the same specs?
Yes. NAPA-Gold oil filters are the same identical thing as regular Wix. Also, WixXP==NAPAplatinum, but they actually don't filter as well as Gold and Wix types.
Originally Posted By: SubieRubyRoo
Charger, the 3.6 does NOT require the 23-24psi bypass valve that the EJ25s do. Wix specs a 51334 for the 3.6, which is 8-11psi, and 57712 for the 2.5, which is 23psi. If you want to use Tokyo Roki that's fine, but Wix makes an engine-correct filter for either application.
Wix 57712 - 2.5
Wix 51334 - 3.6R
Thanks for this! Would the NAPA Gold have the same specs?
Yes. NAPA-Gold oil filters are the same identical thing as regular Wix. Also, WixXP==NAPAplatinum, but they actually don't filter as well as Gold and Wix types.
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I've had multiple leaks with flat gasket filters in Subaru applications. I would recommend a filter with a P - base pseudo O-ring gasket. I like larger format WIX but not the smaller format. The base end bypass takes up too much can space and you get shortchanged on filter area.
I would highly recommend that you DO NOT use "conventional" oil. ILSAC gf5 uses FM and other slickifiers which will impede break-in as much or more than a Group iii, iv, V blend "synthetic" would, but with the added problems of varnishing of ring land/groove area and the high shear rate of high treat % of viscosity modifiers (VM).
I would highly recommend that you DO NOT use "conventional" oil. ILSAC gf5 uses FM and other slickifiers which will impede break-in as much or more than a Group iii, iv, V blend "synthetic" would, but with the added problems of varnishing of ring land/groove area and the high shear rate of high treat % of viscosity modifiers (VM).
Since the engine calls for 5W-30, can any 5W-30 synthetic be used? For example, an ACEA A3/B4 or ACEA C3 5W-30? That would be my choice, as it is a "true" 5W-30 that hasn't been thinned out for fuel-economy reasons. They carry a HTHS of around 3.5 instead of ~3.0.
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
I've had multiple leaks with flat gasket filters in Subaru applications. I would recommend a filter with a P - base pseudo O-ring gasket. I like larger format WIX but not the smaller format. The base end bypass takes up too much can space and you get shortchanged on filter area.
I would highly recommend that you DO NOT use "conventional" oil. ILSAC gf5 uses FM and other slickifiers which will impede break-in as much or more than a Group iii, iv, V blend "synthetic" would, but with the added problems of varnishing of ring land/groove area and the high shear rate of high treat % of viscosity modifiers (VM).
Originally Posted By: PimTac
I agree with Arco in that you should skip the conventional and use synthetic in this motor. If I remember correctly, the 3.6 has a very long and convoluted timing chain.
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Since the engine calls for 5W-30, can any 5W-30 synthetic be used? For example, an ACEA A3/B4 or ACEA C3 5W-30? That would be my choice, as it is a "true" 5W-30 that hasn't been thinned out for fuel-economy reasons. They carry a HTHS of around 3.5 instead of ~3.0.
OK, So synthetic then. Now which one? The owners manual calls for a SN or GF-5 spec. I am not up to date as to all of the specs that 1JZ_E46 referred to, are they older specs? As you can see from my signature I do use M1 5-30 in my Tacoma, I also use it in my daughters Forester (0w-20 AFE). I have a long history with it as I ran it in a lot of cars in the past. I must say though that I am not entirely happy with it. The engines seem to do OK with it in that they do not require me to add any in the 3500-4000 mile OCI . What I am not happy with is the noisy engine cold start noises I hear, I always thought that it was the nature of the newer engines today. But perhaps there is a synthetic engine oil that would quiet down engine noise on cold starts? I'm also not real interested in oils that promise annual oil changes, as I feel the towing I do with the Tacoma and the cold climate (Northern MN) I live in requires more frequent changes. I did use Castrol Edge full synthetic in a older Passat 2.8 that I owned, I liked it and I'm also thinking maybe Valvoline Advanced Synthetic. I believe they are both available locally. The end game would be to use the same oil in both the Subbie and the Taco. They both require mort than the 5 qt. bottle supplies and using just one type in both would save on shelf space.
Thanks again for all the knowledgable information.
Good Luck and Happy Motoring.
P.S. How does one go about getting the nice "Military Veteran" avatar?
I've had multiple leaks with flat gasket filters in Subaru applications. I would recommend a filter with a P - base pseudo O-ring gasket. I like larger format WIX but not the smaller format. The base end bypass takes up too much can space and you get shortchanged on filter area.
I would highly recommend that you DO NOT use "conventional" oil. ILSAC gf5 uses FM and other slickifiers which will impede break-in as much or more than a Group iii, iv, V blend "synthetic" would, but with the added problems of varnishing of ring land/groove area and the high shear rate of high treat % of viscosity modifiers (VM).
Originally Posted By: PimTac
I agree with Arco in that you should skip the conventional and use synthetic in this motor. If I remember correctly, the 3.6 has a very long and convoluted timing chain.
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Since the engine calls for 5W-30, can any 5W-30 synthetic be used? For example, an ACEA A3/B4 or ACEA C3 5W-30? That would be my choice, as it is a "true" 5W-30 that hasn't been thinned out for fuel-economy reasons. They carry a HTHS of around 3.5 instead of ~3.0.
OK, So synthetic then. Now which one? The owners manual calls for a SN or GF-5 spec. I am not up to date as to all of the specs that 1JZ_E46 referred to, are they older specs? As you can see from my signature I do use M1 5-30 in my Tacoma, I also use it in my daughters Forester (0w-20 AFE). I have a long history with it as I ran it in a lot of cars in the past. I must say though that I am not entirely happy with it. The engines seem to do OK with it in that they do not require me to add any in the 3500-4000 mile OCI . What I am not happy with is the noisy engine cold start noises I hear, I always thought that it was the nature of the newer engines today. But perhaps there is a synthetic engine oil that would quiet down engine noise on cold starts? I'm also not real interested in oils that promise annual oil changes, as I feel the towing I do with the Tacoma and the cold climate (Northern MN) I live in requires more frequent changes. I did use Castrol Edge full synthetic in a older Passat 2.8 that I owned, I liked it and I'm also thinking maybe Valvoline Advanced Synthetic. I believe they are both available locally. The end game would be to use the same oil in both the Subbie and the Taco. They both require mort than the 5 qt. bottle supplies and using just one type in both would save on shelf space.
Thanks again for all the knowledgable information.
Good Luck and Happy Motoring.
P.S. How does one go about getting the nice "Military Veteran" avatar?
Use whatever oil is specified in the owner's manual. Most importantly, stick to the correct oil weight and service intervals during the warranty period. If the manual calls for conventional, you can use any API certified oil in the correct weight... so the dealers are right. If you want to switch to synthetic, you can do that anytime. Synthetic oil does not provide more wear protection than conventional oil. Synthetic simply lasts longer and can be run more miles before changing, all else being equal. Remember many vehicles come with synthetic from the factory and those engines break-in just fine. Do not run conventional oil in an engine where synthetic is required.
Originally Posted By: tommymac
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Since the engine calls for 5W-30, can any 5W-30 synthetic be used? For example, an ACEA A3/B4 or ACEA C3 5W-30? That would be my choice, as it is a "true" 5W-30 that hasn't been thinned out for fuel-economy reasons. They carry a HTHS of around 3.5 instead of ~3.0.
I am not up to date as to all of the specs that 1JZ_E46 referred to, are they older specs?
ACEA is the European equivalent to API (in general).
Originally Posted By: kaesees
Assuming this is from the OP's owners manual, only GF-5 / API SN is allowed. (A3/B4 and C3 are mutually exclusive from GF-5).
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Since the engine calls for 5W-30, can any 5W-30 synthetic be used? For example, an ACEA A3/B4 or ACEA C3 5W-30? That would be my choice, as it is a "true" 5W-30 that hasn't been thinned out for fuel-economy reasons. They carry a HTHS of around 3.5 instead of ~3.0.
I am not up to date as to all of the specs that 1JZ_E46 referred to, are they older specs?
ACEA is the European equivalent to API (in general).
Originally Posted By: kaesees
Assuming this is from the OP's owners manual, only GF-5 / API SN is allowed. (A3/B4 and C3 are mutually exclusive from GF-5).
Yep, that looks to be the case. An A5/B5 would be fine, since all ours are SN/GF-5.
Well, to put a finishing touch to this this topic, I did change the oil in the Outback yesterday. I ended up choosing Valvoline Advanced Full Synthetic. It was really a toss up between that, the Castrol Synthetic and Mobil 1. Probably just choose the Valvoline because I'm hoping for less cold engine noise vs. what the Mobil 1 has provided in the Tacoma. I'm thinking I will change the Taco over to the VAFS at the next change. I do know one thing after reading all of the excellent suggestions here. I put way to much thought into this.
I should start a new thread with this one but...I waited way to long to do this 1st oil change on the Outback. At 1760 miles there seemed to be a lot of pieces of metal shavings in the dumped oil. I cleaned the drip pan up pretty good an then let the used oil settle in the drip pan before dumping it in my used oil jug. After pouring it out I noticed there were quite a bit of shavings stuck to the bottom of the pan. I hope the picture shows them. All of the little things you see are shiny metal shavings and black bits of junk. As a result do you think it would be wise to do another change soon? I would normally do my next change at about 3500-4000 miles or in Sept/Oct. Thanks Again! I tried to upload a image of the drip pan but it I don't think it worked.
Good Luck and Happy Motoring!
I should start a new thread with this one but...I waited way to long to do this 1st oil change on the Outback. At 1760 miles there seemed to be a lot of pieces of metal shavings in the dumped oil. I cleaned the drip pan up pretty good an then let the used oil settle in the drip pan before dumping it in my used oil jug. After pouring it out I noticed there were quite a bit of shavings stuck to the bottom of the pan. I hope the picture shows them. All of the little things you see are shiny metal shavings and black bits of junk. As a result do you think it would be wise to do another change soon? I would normally do my next change at about 3500-4000 miles or in Sept/Oct. Thanks Again! I tried to upload a image of the drip pan but it I don't think it worked.
Good Luck and Happy Motoring!
I purchased late August 2017, a 2018 Outback limited with the 3.6 and it requires 5W30... I first changed it at the dealer at 5200 miles with Synthetic 5W30 after a drive from WI to FL and back. We then had it changed again with 5W30 syn at 6700 miles, because we were leaving for another trip to FL and back... Just last week got back to WI and it currently has 11K miles and will change the syn oil it at 12K miles. So far the oil has been close to the full mark on the oil stick and the engine runs extremely smooth and quiet. I am now planning on staying close to OCI's of 6K miles with syn oil. I do have a purchased Subaru 36000 mile maintenance plan and it requires the dealer to use syn motor oil...
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Originally Posted By: tojo1968
Congrats on the Subie. I had an 06 Forester and loved it. My recommendation is to use OEM filters and the correct grade M1.
By using OEM filters, you can immediately eliminate the filter from any oil related warranty claims. Subie will scrutinize EVERYTHING for a major warranty repair.
Crazy Warranty Denials
I kindly disagree, Subaru oem filters are complete garbage, you do not have to use oem it does not void warranty. You can find on YouTube the cut open of a new unused subi filter. Garbage. I personally use Purolator Boss filters
Congrats on the Subie. I had an 06 Forester and loved it. My recommendation is to use OEM filters and the correct grade M1.
By using OEM filters, you can immediately eliminate the filter from any oil related warranty claims. Subie will scrutinize EVERYTHING for a major warranty repair.
Crazy Warranty Denials
I kindly disagree, Subaru oem filters are complete garbage, you do not have to use oem it does not void warranty. You can find on YouTube the cut open of a new unused subi filter. Garbage. I personally use Purolator Boss filters
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted By: tommymac
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Since the engine calls for 5W-30, can any 5W-30 synthetic be used? For example, an ACEA A3/B4 or ACEA C3 5W-30? That would be my choice, as it is a "true" 5W-30 that hasn't been thinned out for fuel-economy reasons. They carry a HTHS of around 3.5 instead of ~3.0.
I am not up to date as to all of the specs that 1JZ_E46 referred to, are they older specs?
ACEA is the European equivalent to API (in general).
Originally Posted By: kaesees
Assuming this is from the OP's owners manual, only GF-5 / API SN is allowed. (A3/B4 and C3 are mutually exclusive from GF-5).
Exactly why most subi performance guys use shell T6 5/40.
Originally Posted By: tommymac
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Since the engine calls for 5W-30, can any 5W-30 synthetic be used? For example, an ACEA A3/B4 or ACEA C3 5W-30? That would be my choice, as it is a "true" 5W-30 that hasn't been thinned out for fuel-economy reasons. They carry a HTHS of around 3.5 instead of ~3.0.
I am not up to date as to all of the specs that 1JZ_E46 referred to, are they older specs?
ACEA is the European equivalent to API (in general).
Originally Posted By: kaesees
Assuming this is from the OP's owners manual, only GF-5 / API SN is allowed. (A3/B4 and C3 are mutually exclusive from GF-5).
Exactly why most subi performance guys use shell T6 5/40.
Originally Posted By: Bullwinkle007
Originally Posted By: tojo1968
Congrats on the Subie. I had an 06 Forester and loved it. My recommendation is to use OEM filters and the correct grade M1.
By using OEM filters, you can immediately eliminate the filter from any oil related warranty claims. Subie will scrutinize EVERYTHING for a major warranty repair.
Crazy Warranty Denials
I kindly disagree, Subaru oem filters are complete garbage, you do not have to use oem it does not void warranty. You can find on YouTube the cut open of a new unused subi filter. Garbage. I personally use Purolator Boss filters
The Subaru OEM filters are not garbage. I’ve been running them on 4 different Subaru’s for many years and hundreds of thousands of miles. Before they switched to Honeywell, Subaru used Purolator filters as OEM and there were leaks with those. Does that mean they were garbage? No.
People put way too much weight in pics and videos of cut open filters and think that we qualifies as “data”.
Originally Posted By: tojo1968
Congrats on the Subie. I had an 06 Forester and loved it. My recommendation is to use OEM filters and the correct grade M1.
By using OEM filters, you can immediately eliminate the filter from any oil related warranty claims. Subie will scrutinize EVERYTHING for a major warranty repair.
Crazy Warranty Denials
I kindly disagree, Subaru oem filters are complete garbage, you do not have to use oem it does not void warranty. You can find on YouTube the cut open of a new unused subi filter. Garbage. I personally use Purolator Boss filters
The Subaru OEM filters are not garbage. I’ve been running them on 4 different Subaru’s for many years and hundreds of thousands of miles. Before they switched to Honeywell, Subaru used Purolator filters as OEM and there were leaks with those. Does that mean they were garbage? No.
People put way too much weight in pics and videos of cut open filters and think that we qualifies as “data”.
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Originally Posted By: Bullwinkle007
Originally Posted By: tojo1968
Congrats on the Subie. I had an 06 Forester and loved it. My recommendation is to use OEM filters and the correct grade M1.
By using OEM filters, you can immediately eliminate the filter from any oil related warranty claims. Subie will scrutinize EVERYTHING for a major warranty repair.
Crazy Warranty Denials
I kindly disagree, Subaru oem filters are complete garbage, you do not have to use oem it does not void warranty. You can find on YouTube the cut open of a new unused subi filter. Garbage. I personally use Purolator Boss filters
Whats wrong with them? fibreboard end caps THAT CAN BE readily glued to the natural and glass fiber-based media -and- contribute less to recycling costs with NO DOWNSIDE to this aaplication? The center tube is perforated steel - this is where you need the stiffness. Plus the P crossection (pseudo) O-ring gasket is the only design that will not leak. So whats wrong again? Honda Uses SAME OE as Fuji to make their service filters.
Originally Posted By: tojo1968
Congrats on the Subie. I had an 06 Forester and loved it. My recommendation is to use OEM filters and the correct grade M1.
By using OEM filters, you can immediately eliminate the filter from any oil related warranty claims. Subie will scrutinize EVERYTHING for a major warranty repair.
Crazy Warranty Denials
I kindly disagree, Subaru oem filters are complete garbage, you do not have to use oem it does not void warranty. You can find on YouTube the cut open of a new unused subi filter. Garbage. I personally use Purolator Boss filters
Whats wrong with them? fibreboard end caps THAT CAN BE readily glued to the natural and glass fiber-based media -and- contribute less to recycling costs with NO DOWNSIDE to this aaplication? The center tube is perforated steel - this is where you need the stiffness. Plus the P crossection (pseudo) O-ring gasket is the only design that will not leak. So whats wrong again? Honda Uses SAME OE as Fuji to make their service filters.
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