Oil for 3.5 Ecoboost ?

Joined
Dec 26, 2005
Messages
23,583
Location
Upper Midwest
Stay away from 0w unless it is below 10 deg F at morning start ups regularly, like canada or something.
0w-40 is using black magic to pretend its thick enough for a turbo. Cap says 5w base oil, don't go 0w unless its artic temps.
Can you explain why he should stay away from an oil with a 0W winter rating? And why 10F? The difference in pumping and crankability between a 5W and a 0W rated oil isn't seen until you are at -30 or so, at 10F there is zero difference. And it's not "5W base oil".

The only "black magic" in that oil are the multiple stringent manufacturer approvals the oil has which demonstrate it's superior performance. But still I'd like to hear why it should be avoided.
 
Joined
Dec 26, 2005
Messages
23,583
Location
Upper Midwest
If it gets below 10 degrees F regularly run a 0w-30. I've only seen that weight in mobil...
Again the 10F threshold is irrelevant for the difference here in winter rating. Plot them out yourself if you don't understand how it works.

Pennzoil, Castrol and Amsoil all have 0W-30 oils besides ExxonMobil. Pretty good selection of them if you look around.
 
Joined
Mar 4, 2017
Messages
24,674
Location
...
Can you explain why he should stay away from an oil with a 0W winter rating? And why 10F? The difference in pumping and crankability between a 5W and a 0W rated oil isn't seen until you are at -30 or so, at 10F there is zero difference. And it's not "5W base oil".

The only "black magic" in that oil are the multiple stringent manufacturer approvals the oil has which demonstrate it's superior performance. But still I'd like to hear why it should be avoided.


I’m eager to hear this as well. I’m running 0W-20 in the upper 90’s this week. 😉
 
Joined
Aug 28, 2017
Messages
3,303
Location
near Cincinnati, OH
Not splitting hairs on the #'s but I agree with that, do not use some 0W-anything unless your temps are very cold. It does result in a lower viscosity base oil.

Back to the topic origins, use 10W-40 unless you have specific reason to drop lower, except it's a Ford, and it's an Ecoboost, so something else is going to go wrong first, before the viscosity mattered that much.

For that reason, you should use what is in the owner's manual and document oil changes well, to preserve the warranty, then once the warranty is up, see above, switch to 10W-40 unless you live in a cold climate.
 

OVERKILL

$100 Site Donor 2021
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
53,736
Location
Ontario, Canada
Not splitting hairs on the #'s but I agree with that, do not use some 0W-anything unless your temps are very cold. It does result in a lower viscosity base oil.
Not necessarily. If all things are equal, it requires a thinner base oil to meet the Winter rating, but all things are seldom equal and typically they just use a cheaper base in the oil with the easier to hit Winter rating.

Look at Gokhan's estimates for VII content, M1 HM 10W-40 is calculated as having 11.17% VII content, while M1 FS 0W-40 is calculated as having 8.23% (Visom version at 7.80%). And that's with both of these being synthetics.

He also has Valvoline 10W-40 at 7.98% and their 0W-40 at 8.00%.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Aug 28, 2017
Messages
3,303
Location
near Cincinnati, OH
^ You seem to be lost in the numbers.

All else equal, it is a downgrade to choose a winter rating lower than you need, and settle for a lower base oil viscosity to get there.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Mar 4, 2017
Messages
24,674
Location
...
^ You seem to be lost in the numbers.

All else equal, it is a downgrade to choose a winter rating lower than you need, and settle for a lower base oil viscosity to get there.


I don’t want to bother with all that. My engine runs very smooth on 0w-20 at all temperatures. I don’t consider it a downgrade in the least.
 
Joined
Aug 28, 2017
Messages
3,303
Location
near Cincinnati, OH
Then you aren't considering the evidence that if 0W worked equally well at higher temps, the other grades would no longer exist.

Think about that a while, because we're going to come back to it if we continue this discussion. Advancements in oil were also made at higher viscosities.

Plus it is not a subjective perception of running smooth, rather how long till it doesn't, run smooth.

It's a downgrade to use 0W if the climate doesn't require it. It's kinda WHY there are multiple viscosities available. I'm going to throw the word shear out there and let you run with it..
 
Last edited:

OVERKILL

$100 Site Donor 2021
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
53,736
Location
Ontario, Canada
^ You seem to be lost in the numbers.

All else equal, it is a downgrade to choose a winter rating lower than you need, and settle for a lower base oil viscosity to get there.
You don't seem to be processing my explanation.

If we are looking at two xW-40's and one has 11.17% VII and the other has 7.68%, which one do you think has the lighter base oil blend? Furthermore, which one is going to be more inclined to suffer mechanical shear?

As I said, all else is basically never equal, I actually provided some examples of how this plays out in practice. They just use cheaper bases.

EDIT:

I think the problem here is the assumption that the oils will be blended like this, with the narrower the range, the less VII and the heavier the base oil blend. In this example, the 0W-40 has around a 5cSt base oil viscosity and 12% VII, while the 10W-40 has around a 7cSt base oil viscosity and 7% VII.
Screen Shot 2019-02-04 at 11.31.11 PM.png


Whereas, the manufacturers can instead get away with doing something that looks more like this, where it is 5cSt and 9.8% VII:
Screen Shot 2021-11-23 at 9.35.41 PM.png


That's why I brought up Gokhan's spreadsheet, because he does have VII estimates for a few 10W-40's and they aren't super heavy base oil with almost no VII like one might hope to see.

Again, going back to that same spreadsheet and Gokhan's estimates, if we look at two Mobil oils:

M1 HM 10W-40:
Base oil viscosity: 7.36cSt
VII content: 11.17%

M1 FS 0W-40 (Visom):
Base oil viscosity: 7.42cSt
VII content: 7.80%

So, with these two Mobil examples, the 0W-40 has less VII, and a heavier base oil, than the 10W-40.


So, back to my point, you can't just assume that a 10W-40 has a heavier base oil blend and less VII.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Feb 15, 2003
Messages
13,377
Location
Jupiter, Florida
Short 5000-mile intervals with good synthetic oil. I'm not an EcoBoost fan and would trade your vehicle in before the warranty runs out. Good luck.
We operate two of them. 5K OCI's, 10W-30 M1 EP nearly 180K.

The only wear related issue with the EB engines is timing chain wear. This is a factor of viscosity and contamination. It's a $4000 job to replace the chain and it's up to you whether you want to wear the chain out or not. Really.

Don't care, then use thinner dino oil and 10K++ OCI's. Maybe you'll get good chain life, but there is also a chance you'll end up doing a timing chain job at around 100K miles.

Change the oil at the 5K mark, use a quality synthetic and consider the viscosity carefully, and the chain will last you 600K miles. This is a proven fact.

The reason is simple. Chains last longest with a true 30 viscosity oil. Chain wear accelerates with high particulates. By about the 4000-4500 mile mark, EB engines have nicely contaminated the oil. Continued operation to the 10K mark simply means circulating particulates and low viscosity are doing their part to wear the chain.

Furthermore, UOA results DO NOT reflect wear rates.
 
Joined
Apr 2, 2022
Messages
57
We operate two of them. 5K OCI's, 10W-30 M1 EP nearly 180K.

The only wear related issue with the EB engines is timing chain wear. This is a factor of viscosity and contamination. It's a $4000 job to replace the chain and it's up to you whether you want to wear the chain out or not. Really.





Find a new dealer, I only paid $2200.
 
Joined
Nov 25, 2014
Messages
460
Location
AZ
We operate two of them. 5K OCI's, 10W-30 M1 EP nearly 180K.

The only wear related issue with the EB engines is timing chain wear. This is a factor of viscosity and contamination. It's a $4000 job to replace the chain and it's up to you whether you want to wear the chain out or not. Really.

Don't care, then use thinner dino oil and 10K++ OCI's. Maybe you'll get good chain life, but there is also a chance you'll end up doing a timing chain job at around 100K miles.

Change the oil at the 5K mark, use a quality synthetic and consider the viscosity carefully, and the chain will last you 600K miles. This is a proven fact.

The reason is simple. Chains last longest with a true 30 viscosity oil. Chain wear accelerates with high particulates. By about the 4000-4500 mile mark, EB engines have nicely contaminated the oil. Continued operation to the 10K mark simply means circulating particulates and low viscosity are doing their part to wear the chain.

Furthermore, UOA results DO NOT reflect wear rates.
Head gasket problems and loss of coolant into the cylinders seem to be a big and expensive issue, even on low mileage fords with the EcoBoost.
 
Joined
May 3, 2015
Messages
250
Location
MD
I just purchased a new F150, it has the 3.5 in it and just a few hundred miles on it. My question, when to change and what to use?
Thanks
I had a '17 F150 with the 3.5L EB. I did the first change around 1K with every other change after that at around 6-7K mile intervals. I ran it to around 80K miles without any issues with anything. Motorcraft Synthetic Blend was always out of grade by 5K miles. I seemed to get pretty good results with Valvoline Synpower MST 5w-40, but that was a few years ago. Things may be different now.

I've had pretty good results with Valvoline in my other EB engines as well. Their synthetic and synthetic HM have been pretty good. Might be something you want to take a look at.
 
Joined
Jul 24, 2011
Messages
1,756
Location
Missouri
Head gasket problems and loss of coolant into the cylinders seem to be a big and expensive issue, even on low mileage fords with the EcoBoost.
That’s on the 1.5/1.6 ecoboost and to a lesser extent the 2.0. NOT the 3.5 or 2.7 in the f150’s. The fact that they have the ecoboost placard on them is about the end of the similarities.
 
Last edited:

Jackson_Slugger

$50 Site Donor 2022
Joined
Sep 30, 2019
Messages
1,884
Location
New York
Not splitting hairs on the #'s but I agree with that, do not use some 0W-anything unless your temps are very cold. It does result in a lower viscosity base oil.

Back to the topic origins, use 10W-40 unless you have specific reason to drop lower, except it's a Ford, and it's an Ecoboost, so something else is going to go wrong first, before the viscosity mattered that much.

For that reason, you should use what is in the owner's manual and document oil changes well, to preserve the warranty, then once the warranty is up, see above, switch to 10W-40 unless you live in a cold climate.

Mobil 1 0W-30 AFE, while not the darling it used to be here and not my first choice, is thicker at temperature (11.5cst) than many 5W-30's!

And every UOA shows it still well within the XW-30 range after 7500 miles...
 
Joined
Nov 25, 2014
Messages
460
Location
AZ
That’s on the 1.5/1.6 ecoboost and to a lesser extent the 2.0. NOT the 3.5 or 2.7 in the f150’s. The fact that they have the ecoboost placard on them is about the end of the similarities.
I'll pass on the newer Fords. I've seen so many videos on their complexity and problems, a warranty and towing package are a must.
 
Joined
Aug 14, 2019
Messages
555
Location
NYC
I am on my second Lincoln Navigator. Both had the 3.5 liter Ecoboost engine. I had a 2018 which I drove 130,000 miles for taxi/liver use in the NYC area I now have a 2021 with 47000 miles. I have worked very closely with the dealership on all repair issues and have followed very closely the Ford Tech on Youtube. I have done extensive oil testing and posted one today.

My 2018 Navigator had major engine problems at 90000 miles where it sat in the dealership for 3 months. The 10R80 trans failed at 70000 miles. I can tell you expertly that you dont want to mess with this engine in any way.

This engine will tend to shear most engine oils. It will turn a 5W30 into a 5W20. I tried 5W40 HDEOs with great success. Mobil 1 Delvac 5W40 ESP worked very well and resisted the shearing. I am now trying Quaker State 5W40 Euro API SP.

The Ford tech on Youtube says to change it at 3000 miles and he uses Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 5W30 API SP



Here is a UOA of Pennzoil Ultra Platinum I found on another website. This is a really exceptional UOA except the viscosity. If he left it in another 1000 miles it would be a 5W20. On Pennzoils website it says the original cst is 10.3.


Screenshot_20220802-213725_Samsung Internet.jpg
 
Joined
Aug 14, 2019
Messages
555
Location
NYC
Here is the oil test for an F150 Ecoboost using Pennzoil Platinum 5W30. Notice how the iron content is higher and the oil sheared down to a 5W20. There is a difference between Platinum and Ultra Platinum.

Screenshot_20220802-215351_Chrome.jpg
 
Top