There were papers back when I was a newby here, that showed some sort of pitting like phenomenon happening with very high levels of ZDDP (intergranular ???)...haven't been able to find anything on it the last number of times that it's come up.
Oil for 1985 Nissan Pickup. Is high ZDDP required?
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Originally Posted by Cujet
Originally Posted by FordCapriDriver
SOHC doesn't mean it's not flat tappet.... i haveppen to have a SOHC flat tappet engine in my Escort.
The camshaft is in the head, and the hydraulic flat tappet lifters ride on the cam, which push up directly on the rocker.
Correct, those are flat tappet engines. Always liked the design. For a 2 valve engine, they seemed to run really well when properly tuned too.
I like them, but they are prone to cam wear and the press used to always complain that they were rough at high revs.
I run 15W-40 HDEO in mine to hopefully prevent that from happening.
Originally Posted by FordCapriDriver
SOHC doesn't mean it's not flat tappet.... i haveppen to have a SOHC flat tappet engine in my Escort.
The camshaft is in the head, and the hydraulic flat tappet lifters ride on the cam, which push up directly on the rocker.
Correct, those are flat tappet engines. Always liked the design. For a 2 valve engine, they seemed to run really well when properly tuned too.
I like them, but they are prone to cam wear and the press used to always complain that they were rough at high revs.
I run 15W-40 HDEO in mine to hopefully prevent that from happening.
Originally Posted by FordCapriDriver
Originally Posted by Cujet
Originally Posted by FordCapriDriver
SOHC doesn't mean it's not flat tappet.... i haveppen to have a SOHC flat tappet engine in my Escort.
The camshaft is in the head, and the hydraulic flat tappet lifters ride on the cam, which push up directly on the rocker.
Correct, those are flat tappet engines. Always liked the design. For a 2 valve engine, they seemed to run really well when properly tuned too.
I like them, but they are prone to cam wear and the press used to always complain that they were rough at high revs.
I run 15W-40 HDEO in mine to hopefully prevent that from happening.
OP's engine is Nissan Z24, which doesn't have tappets (flat or roller). It's an overhead-cam design with sliding rocker arms.
Here is his valvetrain and you can see the cam directly below the sliding rocker arms:
![[Linked Image]](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/BGtcHA4v9F4b7iOU7YfcXAY49_144z6syPkg8JB0vv4VJ6jl57etCq4Z9vNU4onzF5UG-EX290szfYgWjDTCv0s8Nb-kTWBm_pfA588dzzwg-JkZ7myovALrhN_vhxVSSQKgTWaTsPPCLfPqsq3LLFJDqE_9filCsOK0VZrTFyA_eLGCXKL8-zlsY98NvvLi4lOczWngUFYlUCHwEZScz08C4GI134IKXyrhhh2CcZBHC2cEn2qmdjMu7JClPG6_7FCq4MqkOjA0Ilnf4n_cLtDjNpAESnehmynwJ_qtnvotmEQW10ZST8jJEeSdhksqxtnr04fBMWcYVTGWsQou3Gjqf1a15c7rHaRq1Exl5Dcgndex1bbyYprKIsgVzMwMRe1_8ChOjw1abrn8UssXdhZK4P-iWAvmP_R0_SMCs4qrtVw2HZELiI7Uu51i0ArRSTgiFXkHAkPHuMlvszMNgBG462llEbzuTXubnC39R05YbbtfJsOV54DcsEkURX-PkY9IlNz1VJudktyVuTO7tTel56VWk4I5DGhReITW6N0xYkwhOt4J6BmHAV6j_hPSinAzXgcGJSqTTmzclRRFa6xI8nwK6cAm3zeXoX_CjriS_9JVSNqx5-q9NseMcnMWdX2LhZ5ZeL9OXiTo27wzEKCWrDWmgNIp=w1200-no?.jpg "[Linked Image]")
Nevertheless, 15W-40 (or 20W-50) is a good choice for engines prone to high valvetrain wear because of its thicker base oil.
Originally Posted by Cujet
Originally Posted by FordCapriDriver
SOHC doesn't mean it's not flat tappet.... i haveppen to have a SOHC flat tappet engine in my Escort.
The camshaft is in the head, and the hydraulic flat tappet lifters ride on the cam, which push up directly on the rocker.
Correct, those are flat tappet engines. Always liked the design. For a 2 valve engine, they seemed to run really well when properly tuned too.
I like them, but they are prone to cam wear and the press used to always complain that they were rough at high revs.
I run 15W-40 HDEO in mine to hopefully prevent that from happening.
OP's engine is Nissan Z24, which doesn't have tappets (flat or roller). It's an overhead-cam design with sliding rocker arms.
Here is his valvetrain and you can see the cam directly below the sliding rocker arms:
Nevertheless, 15W-40 (or 20W-50) is a good choice for engines prone to high valvetrain wear because of its thicker base oil.
Originally Posted by Shannow
There were papers back when I was a newby here, that showed some sort of pitting like phenomenon happening with very high levels of ZDDP (intergranular ???)...haven't been able to find anything on it the last number of times that it's come up.
This one?
McGeehan, J., Yamaguchi, E., and Adams, J., "Some Effects of Zinc Dithiophosphates and Detergents on Controlling Engine Wear," SAE Technical Paper 852133, 1985, https://doi.org/10.4271/852133.
Quote
The modern crankcase oil should prevent wear in both gasoline and diesel engines. This paper addresses the effects of zinc dithiophosphates (ZnDTP) and detergents on wear control in both applications. The authors find a need to properly balance detergent and ZnDTP types in order to obtain optimum wear performance for gasoline valve train wear. In addition, high levels of magnesium sulfonate produce higher bore polishing and/or ring wear than calcium detergents in three different diesel engine tests. Finally, a proper balance of sulfur-containing components and ZnDTP is necessary to prevent corrosive attack of the bronze pins in some diesel camshaft roller followers. Film and metallurgical analyses of used engine test parts are presented.
There were papers back when I was a newby here, that showed some sort of pitting like phenomenon happening with very high levels of ZDDP (intergranular ???)...haven't been able to find anything on it the last number of times that it's come up.
This one?
McGeehan, J., Yamaguchi, E., and Adams, J., "Some Effects of Zinc Dithiophosphates and Detergents on Controlling Engine Wear," SAE Technical Paper 852133, 1985, https://doi.org/10.4271/852133.
Quote
The modern crankcase oil should prevent wear in both gasoline and diesel engines. This paper addresses the effects of zinc dithiophosphates (ZnDTP) and detergents on wear control in both applications. The authors find a need to properly balance detergent and ZnDTP types in order to obtain optimum wear performance for gasoline valve train wear. In addition, high levels of magnesium sulfonate produce higher bore polishing and/or ring wear than calcium detergents in three different diesel engine tests. Finally, a proper balance of sulfur-containing components and ZnDTP is necessary to prevent corrosive attack of the bronze pins in some diesel camshaft roller followers. Film and metallurgical analyses of used engine test parts are presented.
Originally Posted by Shannow
There were papers back when I was a newby here, that showed some sort of pitting like phenomenon happening with very high levels of ZDDP (intergranular ???)...haven't been able to find anything on it the last number of times that it's come up.
Hugh Spikes mentions it in his review article:
One interesting aspect of ZDDP wear performance that has arisen very recently is that ZDDPs appear to strongly promote micropitting wear. Micropitting results from localised plastic deformation due to the surface loadings resulting from rolling/sliding asperity contact and it has been shown that ZDDP, because it very rapidly forms a protective film, prevents or postpones effective running-in of rough surfaces. This leads to high asperity stresses being maintained and consequent micropitting [134]. What is not yet clear is the extent to which this is an undesirable feature of all antiwear additives or of ZDDPs in particular.
The history and mechanisms of ZDDP by Hugh Spikes (PDF link)
There were papers back when I was a newby here, that showed some sort of pitting like phenomenon happening with very high levels of ZDDP (intergranular ???)...haven't been able to find anything on it the last number of times that it's come up.
Hugh Spikes mentions it in his review article:
One interesting aspect of ZDDP wear performance that has arisen very recently is that ZDDPs appear to strongly promote micropitting wear. Micropitting results from localised plastic deformation due to the surface loadings resulting from rolling/sliding asperity contact and it has been shown that ZDDP, because it very rapidly forms a protective film, prevents or postpones effective running-in of rough surfaces. This leads to high asperity stresses being maintained and consequent micropitting [134]. What is not yet clear is the extent to which this is an undesirable feature of all antiwear additives or of ZDDPs in particular.
The history and mechanisms of ZDDP by Hugh Spikes (PDF link)
Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by Shannow
There were papers back when I was a newby here, that showed some sort of pitting like phenomenon happening with very high levels of ZDDP (intergranular ???)...haven't been able to find anything on it the last number of times that it's come up.
Hugh Spikes mentions it in his review article:
One interesting aspect of ZDDP wear performance that has arisen very recently is that ZDDPs appear to strongly promote micropitting wear. Micropitting results from localised plastic deformation due to the surface loadings resulting from rolling/sliding asperity contact and it has been shown that ZDDP, because it very rapidly forms a protective film, prevents or postpones effective running-in of rough surfaces. This leads to high asperity stresses being maintained and consequent micropitting [134]. What is not yet clear is the extent to which this is an undesirable feature of all antiwear additives or of ZDDPs in particular.
The history and mechanisms of ZDDP by Hugh Spikes (PDF link)
Good Paper, Thanks !!!
Originally Posted by Shannow
There were papers back when I was a newby here, that showed some sort of pitting like phenomenon happening with very high levels of ZDDP (intergranular ???)...haven't been able to find anything on it the last number of times that it's come up.
Hugh Spikes mentions it in his review article:
One interesting aspect of ZDDP wear performance that has arisen very recently is that ZDDPs appear to strongly promote micropitting wear. Micropitting results from localised plastic deformation due to the surface loadings resulting from rolling/sliding asperity contact and it has been shown that ZDDP, because it very rapidly forms a protective film, prevents or postpones effective running-in of rough surfaces. This leads to high asperity stresses being maintained and consequent micropitting [134]. What is not yet clear is the extent to which this is an undesirable feature of all antiwear additives or of ZDDPs in particular.
The history and mechanisms of ZDDP by Hugh Spikes (PDF link)
Good Paper, Thanks !!!
My dad and I have a 1986.5 D21 with the VG30i v6. We use ST conventional 10w30 and a Fram EG... no issues...
Originally Posted by talest
KA24E.
Use that three year old oil on that 34 year old Datsun/Nissan and enjoy it.
Back To The Future truck was a Toyota 4x4. Similar but different look than yours.
IIRC it's not a KA24, but a Z24i. Nissan started using the KA24 in 89.
The Z24 is a holdover from the old 720s and while ok (in this form, at least, the older models had an absolutely garbage computerized carb) it's a less powerful engine.
That said, just about any oil would be fine and if you want, a diesel oil would probably work great.
KA24E.
Use that three year old oil on that 34 year old Datsun/Nissan and enjoy it.
Back To The Future truck was a Toyota 4x4. Similar but different look than yours.
IIRC it's not a KA24, but a Z24i. Nissan started using the KA24 in 89.
The Z24 is a holdover from the old 720s and while ok (in this form, at least, the older models had an absolutely garbage computerized carb) it's a less powerful engine.
That said, just about any oil would be fine and if you want, a diesel oil would probably work great.
Originally Posted by Gokhan
The camshaft is in the head, and the hydraulic flat tappet lifters ride on the cam, which push up directly on the rocker.
If I'm not mistaken, Nissan was using a variant of that design on the VG30s and Honda uses that basic configuration on their engines as well.
Those engines aren't picky about what you run. It'll be happy with most oils.
The camshaft is in the head, and the hydraulic flat tappet lifters ride on the cam, which push up directly on the rocker.
If I'm not mistaken, Nissan was using a variant of that design on the VG30s and Honda uses that basic configuration on their engines as well.
Those engines aren't picky about what you run. It'll be happy with most oils.
Originally Posted by nthach
Originally Posted by Gokhan
The camshaft is in the head, and the hydraulic flat tappet lifters ride on the cam, which push up directly on the rocker.
If I'm not mistaken, Nissan was using a variant of that design on the VG30s and Honda uses that basic configuration on their engines as well.
Those engines aren't picky about what you run. It'll be happy with most oils.
That's not my post.
OP's Z24 (or Z24i) SOHC engine has no tappets of any kind (flat or roller). It has sliding rocker arms directly on the camshaft. Yes, any modern oil is fine. If oil consumption is an issue, a 15W-40 HDEO would suit better in a warm climate like in California.
This is what I had written:
Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by FordCapriDriver
Originally Posted by Cujet
Originally Posted by FordCapriDriver
SOHC doesn't mean it's not flat tappet.... i haveppen to have a SOHC flat tappet engine in my Escort.
The camshaft is in the head, and the hydraulic flat tappet lifters ride on the cam, which push up directly on the rocker.
Correct, those are flat tappet engines. Always liked the design. For a 2 valve engine, they seemed to run really well when properly tuned too.
I like them, but they are prone to cam wear and the press used to always complain that they were rough at high revs.
I run 15W-40 HDEO in mine to hopefully prevent that from happening.
OP's engine is Nissan Z24, which doesn't have tappets (flat or roller). It's an overhead-cam design with sliding rocker arms.
Here is his valvetrain and you can see the cam directly below the sliding rocker arms:
Nevertheless, 15W-40 (or 20W-50) is a good choice for engines prone to high valvetrain wear because of its thicker base oil.
Originally Posted by Gokhan
The camshaft is in the head, and the hydraulic flat tappet lifters ride on the cam, which push up directly on the rocker.
If I'm not mistaken, Nissan was using a variant of that design on the VG30s and Honda uses that basic configuration on their engines as well.
Those engines aren't picky about what you run. It'll be happy with most oils.
That's not my post.
OP's Z24 (or Z24i) SOHC engine has no tappets of any kind (flat or roller). It has sliding rocker arms directly on the camshaft. Yes, any modern oil is fine. If oil consumption is an issue, a 15W-40 HDEO would suit better in a warm climate like in California.
This is what I had written:
Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by FordCapriDriver
Originally Posted by Cujet
Originally Posted by FordCapriDriver
SOHC doesn't mean it's not flat tappet.... i haveppen to have a SOHC flat tappet engine in my Escort.
The camshaft is in the head, and the hydraulic flat tappet lifters ride on the cam, which push up directly on the rocker.
Correct, those are flat tappet engines. Always liked the design. For a 2 valve engine, they seemed to run really well when properly tuned too.
I like them, but they are prone to cam wear and the press used to always complain that they were rough at high revs.
I run 15W-40 HDEO in mine to hopefully prevent that from happening.
OP's engine is Nissan Z24, which doesn't have tappets (flat or roller). It's an overhead-cam design with sliding rocker arms.
Here is his valvetrain and you can see the cam directly below the sliding rocker arms:
Nevertheless, 15W-40 (or 20W-50) is a good choice for engines prone to high valvetrain wear because of its thicker base oil.
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