Oil Filters in general - My take!

[pedaltothemetal]

Here is what I figured out now!
The manufacturer sets the specs with their OEM filter for filtering and flow. It must catch particles larger than their clearances so not to cause wear. All the other small stuff that makes the oil black are too small and pass thru the filter. It stays suspended in the oil, and the oil gets blacker and blacker as the suspended particles accumulated which still will not harm the engine if the TBN of the oil is in the safe range. So for me the OEM Delco oil filter is the perfect one for my Chevy. I wouldn't trust high flow ones that filter less than OEM becaue the bigger particles will cause wear. The small micron ones are an overkill and a waste of money. That's my conclusion which I am going to stick to!

Leo

[ January 27, 2003, 03:53 PM: Message edited by: pedaltothemetal ]

 

[Patman]

It sounds simple but look at it this way Leo. A lot of OEM filters use paper media, which will not flow as well as a semi synthetic or synthetic media, nor will it trap as small a particle.

A filter like the K&N has an efficiency of 90% in the multipass test at 10 microns, and single pass it's about an 18 micron filter. But yet this filter is designed to be a high flow filter.

OEM isn't always the best, it's usually a compromise. So not only will it not flow as well, it won't filter as well either.

[ January 27, 2003, 04:00 PM: Message edited by: Patman ]

 

[boxcartommie22]

patman, i called champion today and they said they tests all their filters including the k&n's at a flow rate of 3gpm and they go by what the manufactures set for them champion makes their filters that or exceed that....he said they do not have down that k&n filters flow at 12 -15 those are the subjective testing that k&n does themselves...that is one reason iam not using k&n filters...i choose to use wix for they do test their flow rates on all their filters and they flow at 11-13 gpm's

 

[Spector]

Which filter, OEM or K&N will give you 100,000 miles under the same conditions =BOTH

Which filter will give you 150,000 miles=Probably both

Which will give 200,000 miles ????

Obviously my opinion as no definitive studies have ever been done to my knowledge. We have many many more engines out there over 150,000 miles running dino and Fram filters every 3000 miles then synthetic or high priced premium filters IMO. Even the filter manufacturers cannot agree as to what size micron is large enough to cause damage and that may even vary depending on the engine tolerances.

Seems to be a crap shoot but we keep arguing about filters yet there is no way to test them whereas there is oil analysis for the oil. Even on the oil analysis section the only differences in silicon and wear metals seem to be on the air filter side, we don't seem too concerned over what oil filter they were using. Perhaps in lieu of oil analysis for the oil let's interchange filters and see what the analysis says just by using a different oil filter? Is there a correlation between wear and filters that is shown by other then a filter manufacturer?

 

[YZF150]

Now we're getting down to it, Mr. Spector. Perhaps the crap shoot is just a big sham.

 

[pedaltothemetal]

Think for one second why filters in general are getting smaller. If filtrations was that important I would think they would be bigger!

Leo

 

[S2000driver]

Can we agree on the order of importance in quality (what to look for first)?

Gasket
Anti-drainback valve
Bypass valve
Capacity/Media area
Flow
Filtration
Internal construction
Case

 

[pedaltothemetal]

quote:

---

Originally posted by S2000driver:
Can we agree on the order of importance in quality (what to look for first)?

Gasket
Anti-drainback valve
Bypass valve
Capacity/Media area
Flow
Filtration
Internal construction
Case

---

If the filter was specified for your S2000, then you should be fine. Then it depends on how much you want to pay for a filter. Top of the line are $12.00 each.

Leo

 

[Al]

quote:

---

Originally posted by pedaltothemetal:

quote:

---

Originally posted by S2000driver:
Can we agree on the order of importance in quality (what to look for first)?

Gasket
Anti-drainback valve
Bypass valve
Capacity/Media area
Flow
Filtration
Internal construction
Case

---

If the filter was specified for your S2000, then you should be fine. Then it depends on how much you want to pay for a filter. Top of the line are $12.00 each.

Leo

---

My order is Case after that its a wash. Gasket won't ever fail unless you do something wrong with the installation. But seriously the next things I guess would be the Bypass valve (not opening unless necessary) and then the Flow chracteristics (mainly high). I'm beginning to think more like Spector-If the filter stays in one piece and passes enough flow-life is good

.

 

[pedaltothemetal]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Patman:
It sounds simple but look at it this way Leo. A lot of OEM filters use paper media, which will not flow as well as a semi synthetic or synthetic media, nor will it trap as small a particle.

A filter like the K&N has an efficiency of 90% in the multipass test at 10 microns, and single pass it's about an 18 micron filter. But yet this filter is designed to be a high flow filter.

OEM isn't always the best, it's usually a compromise. So not only will it not flow as well, it won't filter as well either.

---

Isn't the Delco PF44 Duraguard or any Duraguard not an 100% paper element? On the SHO site, Delco filters were found to be very well made and one of the best.
High filtration filters do filter better, but it's inconclusive it will keep wear down. Bob the Oilguy already refuted this with his test data of Fram VS Mobile 1. Unless you can prove K&N gives better wear, I will not be taken by the hype. However there is no denying it has a very robust bullet proof like shell and a convenient 1" nut to ease installation.

Leo

 

[Mike Thompson]

[/qb][/QUOTE]Isn't the Delco PF44 Duraguard or any Duraguard not an 100% paper element? On the SHO site, Delco filters were found to be very well made and one of the best.
High filtration filters do filter better, but it's inconclusive it will keep wear down. Bob the Oilguy already refuted this with his test data of Fram VS Mobile 1. Unless you can prove K&N gives better wear, I will not be taken by the hype. However there is no denying it has a very robust bullet proof like shell and a convenient 1" nut to ease installation.

Leo [/QB][/QUOTE]

Actually, only the AC Ultraguard, which apparently isn't made any more, was highly regarded in the SHO test. The other standard AC Delco filter was crap, manufactured in Asia.
Mike

 

[pedaltothemetal]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mike Thompson:

Actually, only the AC Ultraguard, which apparently isn't made any more, was highly regarded in the SHO test. The other standard AC Delco filter was crap, manufactured in Asia.
Mike

---

Really! Says "Made in the USA" on the box. Asian stuff is pretty good in my book. It's not like it used to be 40 yrs ago when anything made in Asia was low quality.

Leo

 

[Patman]

I don't know about the US made AC Delco, but the CDN ones are made by Dana (who also make Wix) and the catalog claims to use synthetic media. I don't believe the Duragard version in the US claims to use synthetic media though.

 

[Drew99GT]

According to the minimopar oil study, the regular AC Delcos were the best $3 filter available, even after they went to an offshore manufacturer. I'd trust a Delco over any other $3 filter hands down, even a Supertech.

 

[csandste]

A lot of AC Delco filters for non-GM applications are made by Champion Labs so in a sense they ARE SuperTech.

 

[Ray H]

quote:

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Originally posted by csandste:
A lot of AC Delco filters for non-GM applications are made by Champion Labs so in a sense they ARE SuperTech.

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The AC PF-47 Delco filter that came on my wife's 2000 Chevy Cavalier was outwardly physically identical to the SuperTech 3387A I put on at its first oil and filter change.

[ January 29, 2003, 11:32 AM: Message edited by: Ray H ]

 

[UncleS2]

My take on full-flow oil filters? I think that like motor oil & many other things in life, it's a balancing act. I want a good balance of flow, filtration, case strength(against external punctures- look under a 95-99 Neon & you'll see why), and price. I've decided that Wix or Wix made filters are near optimum for me, ditto the AC-Delco($4 locally for the PF-13), & the SuperTech would be just about perfect *if* my size had a thicker shell(per the "thumb test"). Mobil 1 or K&N oil filters? Too pricey for me.

My car has a Pure One on it now, w/ 4 Wix & one Wix-made KMart Penske waiting in the wings. 9K oil change next weekend!

 

[pedaltothemetal]

To be sure you are getting genuine GM OEM oil filters, get the AC Delco from the dealer. Or if you find one make sure it has:
1. "Made in the U.S.A" on the filter box.
2. 5 large inlet holes
3. Spot welded cap
4. Large black rubber gasket in the center flush with the threads.
5. Densly spaced large outlet holes in the center that almost touch.
6. Thick rubber O ring.

Leo

[ January 31, 2003, 01:33 PM: Message edited by: pedaltothemetal ]

 

[pedaltothemetal]

quote:

---

Originally posted by wtd:
I just got done looking at one of the AC-Delco UPF52 gold filters I still have and they are made like the ones everyone is saying are not very good. They do not have the spot welds and the rubber gasket is crimped in. It also has TT stamped on it and it has eight inlet holes. The box does say "made in USA" I bought a case of these filters in January of 2002 and I'm pretty sure they were made by Champion Labs. The supertechs and the Delcos that Walmart used to sell look just like my UPF52 filter. So what is the verdict on the filters I have?

Wayne

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I would just use them. Then switch over to the blue OEM AC Delcos from Pepboys. Your filter media is still the same, just not as robustly constructed like it was before if in fact they did change manufactuers of that filter like some have reported.

Leo

 

[wtd]

I just got done looking at one of the AC-Delco UPF52 gold filters I still have and they are made like the ones everyone is saying are not very good. They do not have the spot welds and the rubber gasket is crimped in. It also has TT stamped on it and it has eight inlet holes. The box does say "made in USA" I bought a case of these filters in January of 2002 and I'm pretty sure they were made by Champion Labs. The supertechs and the Delcos that Walmart used to sell look just like my UPF52 filter. So what is the verdict on the filters I have?

Wayne

[ February 04, 2003, 12:28 PM: Message edited by: wtd ]