Alrighty- to correct a few things. Granny could never get a 250HP 4.6. Granny got a 239HP PI 4.6- then only with a performance/handling package with duals. Grandma probably got a 224HP 4.6 with single exhaust. The CVPIs had the marauder air cleaner and 80mm MAF to bring them up to 250HP. Now for the other differences---oil/water cooler, trans/water cooler, bigger radiator, different brakes/compounds, aluminum drive shaft, 3.55-1 posi optional, 3.27-1 standard, 11.25" torque converter, downshifts programed for 1/2 throttle instead of 3/4, speed rated wheels/tires, reinforced frame, stiffer shocks/springs, rear sway bar (grandma didn't get a rear bar at all), 1" taller ride height, honey comb griller (cooling), bigger alternator, sound insulation delete, resonator delete in said dual exhuasts and a host of other minor changes. Yes- not many purely cooling oriented changes, but VERY different from a stock Vic.
Oil Filters for Police Package Crown Victorias
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dnewton3
Staff member
Many of those things came in the taxi CV as well (cooling package, etc). The severe duty stuff like roof bracing, HD eletrical stuff and such are unique to the CVPI. But most of that has little to do with the engine itself.
I would concur that the 250hp rating was not available to granny, but that is a matter of a little "tuning" via intake upgrade. The engine itself is the same one granny gets, in either of the civilian forms. That engine has changed little since it's 210 HP inception in 1991. I fully understand that performance cars got much different stuff (Mustang hiperf versions, Marauder, 3v and 4v versions, etc). But the basic 4.6L that went into the Lincolns and CVs and such are all the same. What might be bolted on top or around it (to gain a bit of power) doesn't change what is inside it. As you noted, the intake is slighty upgraded for the CVPI but otherwise it's the same 239HP 2v engine that has been available for years. And that 239HP engine is nothing but the 225hp (formerly 210hp) engine with duals and intake mods. Through all those years, and hundreds of thousands of engines, the block, heads, cams, cam drive, con-rods, pistons, crank, etc, ALL are the same as grandma's Vic/Marquis 2v engine. Were there some changes during those 20+ years? Sure. But those changes were genearlly applied across the board to all the engines. As I recall, they changed the pump relief pressure spring rating at one point in the late 1990s, but that was not unique to a CVPI or taxi; it went to all 4.6L engines. When they changed the water pump mount and flow rating, it was not unique to the CVPI/taxi; it went across the board. When they revised the profile of the cam lobes for different overlap specs, again it went across the board. When that cam lobe profile changed, they also modified the OHC followers; again, across the board.
What makes a CVPI/taxi vehicle unique from Grandma's ride is what it takes to recieve a pounding (high speeds, extended idling, jumping curbs, adding high-amp draw components, etc). But the engine itself is the same one that grandma gets, aside from the minimal power mods.
And this thread started out for the OP (when has he disappeared to????) as a qusetion about his OCI and filter choices. This thread might be interesting to those of us who drive them, and it explains much about how PI/taxi vehicles differ, but it does nothing to encourage the OP to use his noodle to go past the "just OCI early/often" mentality. He came here asking for alternatives and information. He could easily confer with the owner's manual to know when Ford say's to OCI. I presume he was interested in the alternative of saving his municipality some money by extending his O/FCIs out to reasonably safe intervals.
If one wants to KNOW (defined as in confidence with factual basis) when to OCI, get a series of UOAs on a few select cars. Then use that info to develop a good plan, and broadcast it across the fleet.
I would concur that the 250hp rating was not available to granny, but that is a matter of a little "tuning" via intake upgrade. The engine itself is the same one granny gets, in either of the civilian forms. That engine has changed little since it's 210 HP inception in 1991. I fully understand that performance cars got much different stuff (Mustang hiperf versions, Marauder, 3v and 4v versions, etc). But the basic 4.6L that went into the Lincolns and CVs and such are all the same. What might be bolted on top or around it (to gain a bit of power) doesn't change what is inside it. As you noted, the intake is slighty upgraded for the CVPI but otherwise it's the same 239HP 2v engine that has been available for years. And that 239HP engine is nothing but the 225hp (formerly 210hp) engine with duals and intake mods. Through all those years, and hundreds of thousands of engines, the block, heads, cams, cam drive, con-rods, pistons, crank, etc, ALL are the same as grandma's Vic/Marquis 2v engine. Were there some changes during those 20+ years? Sure. But those changes were genearlly applied across the board to all the engines. As I recall, they changed the pump relief pressure spring rating at one point in the late 1990s, but that was not unique to a CVPI or taxi; it went to all 4.6L engines. When they changed the water pump mount and flow rating, it was not unique to the CVPI/taxi; it went across the board. When they revised the profile of the cam lobes for different overlap specs, again it went across the board. When that cam lobe profile changed, they also modified the OHC followers; again, across the board.
What makes a CVPI/taxi vehicle unique from Grandma's ride is what it takes to recieve a pounding (high speeds, extended idling, jumping curbs, adding high-amp draw components, etc). But the engine itself is the same one that grandma gets, aside from the minimal power mods.
And this thread started out for the OP (when has he disappeared to????) as a qusetion about his OCI and filter choices. This thread might be interesting to those of us who drive them, and it explains much about how PI/taxi vehicles differ, but it does nothing to encourage the OP to use his noodle to go past the "just OCI early/often" mentality. He came here asking for alternatives and information. He could easily confer with the owner's manual to know when Ford say's to OCI. I presume he was interested in the alternative of saving his municipality some money by extending his O/FCIs out to reasonably safe intervals.
If one wants to KNOW (defined as in confidence with factual basis) when to OCI, get a series of UOAs on a few select cars. Then use that info to develop a good plan, and broadcast it across the fleet.
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OK-
so what we are saying is that the PI engine, (98 mustang- 01 Panther body) which had a different set of heads, intake, ignition system cams, etc (basically everything other than the short block) was essentialy unchanged? I clearly recognize the irrelevance to the OP- but what you have been saying is factually inaccurate. I can also say that oil analysis is OK, but police officers drive so differently (I got about 20MPG on rural patrol, some officers got 11) you just about have to do one per officer. I recommend an OLM if you want to extend OCI, otherwise conservative is better.
so what we are saying is that the PI engine, (98 mustang- 01 Panther body) which had a different set of heads, intake, ignition system cams, etc (basically everything other than the short block) was essentialy unchanged? I clearly recognize the irrelevance to the OP- but what you have been saying is factually inaccurate. I can also say that oil analysis is OK, but police officers drive so differently (I got about 20MPG on rural patrol, some officers got 11) you just about have to do one per officer. I recommend an OLM if you want to extend OCI, otherwise conservative is better.
Also to clarify- the first 4.6s are the non-pi (power or performance improved depending on where you read it). The later, or PI engines are significantly different in every respect but the block, crank, pistons and rods (basically the short block). The differences were quite apparent when coming out of a 98 P71 into an 01 or later.
dnewton3
Staff member
I can find common ground with your comments, but I think I need to clarify the distinctions I'm trying to make.
I apologize; I am using the PI as "police interceptor" and not some other moniker. The "PI" (police interceptor) moniker has been around for quite some time in the EN/FN chassis. I realize that the "power improved" was also labeled as "PI".
I understand there were changes, but often those upgrades went all the way across the board as they arrived. I am purposely excluding significant power producers like the 3v and 4v engines; they are unique. But the 4.6L 2v engines, as they "matured" through the years, were the same for g'ma and for we LEOs, except for some tuning upgrades. I certainly don't call an 11hp bump (239 up to 250) significant. While every hp counts when at WOT, it really does not make that 0-100 run THAT much quicker with 11 extra ponies.
I fully understand and agree that product maturity will "improve the breed" from year to year, and that something will always lead the way. But once that mod is developed, it is OFTEN cascaded into the rest of the line quickly. When one looks at any one given year, the following year will often have those improvements included. As you already stated, the 250HP 4.6L Police Interceptor was afforded a tuning upgrade via intake mods; other than that, it's pretty much granny's long block.
Does a 1994 4.6L differ from a 2010 engine? Yes it certainly does. But taken within generational context, the changes are more of evolution and not revolution. What Mr. LEO might get one year, granny get's the next year. For one thing, it's not cost effective to have vastly different engines for these applications. Easy to bolt on a different MAF and tuned intake, but why go deeper when only 11hp was the goal?????
The LEO versions of the 4.6L engine typically preceeded the power production of the civilian versions, year by year. The most recent 4.6L 250hp engine rating didnt' come along 15 years ago. When the civilians were moping about with 190 and 210 hp "back in the day", the cops only got (IIRC) 220 or 225? And even back then, the LEO variant was an outgrowth of the civilian engine.
And let's not forget that the modular motors were made primarily at two different assembly plants, that oddly enough, have slightly different designs in the block, etc. The Windsor and Romeo plants did have some differences between cam chain covers, etc. I am not including the odd-ball one-off 32v motors like the Lincoln Mark VIII engines (very well built, very robust, very rare and very expensive; they had Itallian cast blocks as I recall).
Here's what this comes down to:
1) interesting discussion about the nuiances of engine lineage
2) some guy wanting to know how often to O/FCI
I have nearly 550 separate and unique UOAs from 4.6L engines in a database, spanning 5 years (2007 to current). That encompansses police vehicles, taxis, grocery-getters, Tritons, etc. I can tell you that statistically, there isn't any wear difference from year to year and mod to mod. From the hardiest cop to the laziest taxi driver to the short-hopper grocery run to the Sunday after-church buffet trip, all these engines pretty much wear the same. The standard deviation of data is very tight, relative to other engines I see, and that means there is precious little difference in wear, regardless of what generation of 4.6L engine we're talking about. You can discuss (as a matter of interest) about the changes from year to year, but those are "inputs". The "output" is UOA data. And the data shows that the 4.6L engine is a very predictable engine when it comes to wear, regardless of year, use or build components. Bolting on a MAF and tuning the tranny to downshift at 1/2 throttle input with a CVPI isn't going to significantly shift the Cu or Pb or Fe in some grotesque manner; it will wear just about like granny's GranMarquis because it is (at it's heart) just like granny's engine.
My suggestion was, and continues to be, to take a few UOA samples from the "BOB and WOW" runners (best-of-best and worst-of-worst). See what data developes. Then expand the plan to the whole fleet. Simply doubling an OCI from 3k to 6k miles could easily pay for the UOAs. As the historical data develops, the UOAs can be scaled back, and the savings would grow even more.
Or, just OCI every 3k miles for all I care; after all, it's "cheap insurance" .....
I apologize; I am using the PI as "police interceptor" and not some other moniker. The "PI" (police interceptor) moniker has been around for quite some time in the EN/FN chassis. I realize that the "power improved" was also labeled as "PI".
I understand there were changes, but often those upgrades went all the way across the board as they arrived. I am purposely excluding significant power producers like the 3v and 4v engines; they are unique. But the 4.6L 2v engines, as they "matured" through the years, were the same for g'ma and for we LEOs, except for some tuning upgrades. I certainly don't call an 11hp bump (239 up to 250) significant. While every hp counts when at WOT, it really does not make that 0-100 run THAT much quicker with 11 extra ponies.
I fully understand and agree that product maturity will "improve the breed" from year to year, and that something will always lead the way. But once that mod is developed, it is OFTEN cascaded into the rest of the line quickly. When one looks at any one given year, the following year will often have those improvements included. As you already stated, the 250HP 4.6L Police Interceptor was afforded a tuning upgrade via intake mods; other than that, it's pretty much granny's long block.
Does a 1994 4.6L differ from a 2010 engine? Yes it certainly does. But taken within generational context, the changes are more of evolution and not revolution. What Mr. LEO might get one year, granny get's the next year. For one thing, it's not cost effective to have vastly different engines for these applications. Easy to bolt on a different MAF and tuned intake, but why go deeper when only 11hp was the goal?????
The LEO versions of the 4.6L engine typically preceeded the power production of the civilian versions, year by year. The most recent 4.6L 250hp engine rating didnt' come along 15 years ago. When the civilians were moping about with 190 and 210 hp "back in the day", the cops only got (IIRC) 220 or 225? And even back then, the LEO variant was an outgrowth of the civilian engine.
And let's not forget that the modular motors were made primarily at two different assembly plants, that oddly enough, have slightly different designs in the block, etc. The Windsor and Romeo plants did have some differences between cam chain covers, etc. I am not including the odd-ball one-off 32v motors like the Lincoln Mark VIII engines (very well built, very robust, very rare and very expensive; they had Itallian cast blocks as I recall).
Here's what this comes down to:
1) interesting discussion about the nuiances of engine lineage
2) some guy wanting to know how often to O/FCI
I have nearly 550 separate and unique UOAs from 4.6L engines in a database, spanning 5 years (2007 to current). That encompansses police vehicles, taxis, grocery-getters, Tritons, etc. I can tell you that statistically, there isn't any wear difference from year to year and mod to mod. From the hardiest cop to the laziest taxi driver to the short-hopper grocery run to the Sunday after-church buffet trip, all these engines pretty much wear the same. The standard deviation of data is very tight, relative to other engines I see, and that means there is precious little difference in wear, regardless of what generation of 4.6L engine we're talking about. You can discuss (as a matter of interest) about the changes from year to year, but those are "inputs". The "output" is UOA data. And the data shows that the 4.6L engine is a very predictable engine when it comes to wear, regardless of year, use or build components. Bolting on a MAF and tuning the tranny to downshift at 1/2 throttle input with a CVPI isn't going to significantly shift the Cu or Pb or Fe in some grotesque manner; it will wear just about like granny's GranMarquis because it is (at it's heart) just like granny's engine.
My suggestion was, and continues to be, to take a few UOA samples from the "BOB and WOW" runners (best-of-best and worst-of-worst). See what data developes. Then expand the plan to the whole fleet. Simply doubling an OCI from 3k to 6k miles could easily pay for the UOAs. As the historical data develops, the UOAs can be scaled back, and the savings would grow even more.
Or, just OCI every 3k miles for all I care; after all, it's "cheap insurance" .....
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You have an excellent point sir. I guess from a UOA standpoint the most significant difference would be the six quart sump in 2001. I gotta tell you, I love my 4.6. Duals (magnaflow), CAI, a few other tweaks (maruader sway bar, 185 t-stat, etc, etc), and I have the grandma 2.73 gears, so i get 28MPG on the highway at 75 all day long. Great engine, I'm gonna find another low mileage one when I get about 150-200K on this one. I drive to missouri once a month for a near 2000 mile round trip and its my daily driver besides, so that shouldnt take more than 3 -4 years. FWIW I pull a 5K OCI with Motorcraft filters. I have run Mobil 0w-20 for the last 15K, but my stash is empty, so its 5w-20 Mobil Clean for the next cycle.
dnewton3
Staff member
If you run your 4.6L engine out to 200k miles, you're probably less than 1/2 way through it's available life cycle!
Those engines are flat out stout when it comes to longevity. I'm working on an article to be posted soon; stay tuned.
I have several cars already in my personal "fleet" at home. I just saw a 2005 Grand Marquis for $5,000 with less than 90k miles on it from a local source. I "need" another car like I need another hole in my head; but darn if it's not hard to resist such a nice car with low miles for that kind of money. It would be impossible for me to ever drive it far enough to die a natural death. Around my area, either wrecks or ferrous cancer (rust) kills a vehicle before mileage does.
Those engines are flat out stout when it comes to longevity. I'm working on an article to be posted soon; stay tuned.
I have several cars already in my personal "fleet" at home. I just saw a 2005 Grand Marquis for $5,000 with less than 90k miles on it from a local source. I "need" another car like I need another hole in my head; but darn if it's not hard to resist such a nice car with low miles for that kind of money. It would be impossible for me to ever drive it far enough to die a natural death. Around my area, either wrecks or ferrous cancer (rust) kills a vehicle before mileage does.
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what dnewton3 said. 150k on a mod motor is nothing.
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