Oil filter warranty and claim in the case of .....

[Baveux]

Have you ever heard about someone having to take a filter company to court in order to back you up because a car manufacturer was refusing to honor their warranty on a blown up engine alleging of an aftermarket defective filter or inappropriate selection or error in the listinfg of the filter use ?

I read many times here that all the filters can do the job, that they all pass or surpass OEM requirement , but .... how good are they when its time for them to defend their honor and their customers ?

I am asking because I have a Mitsubishi SUV with a power train warranty of 10 years and 160k km . I am tempt to go aftermarket for my filter .... but I also think that I am exposing myself too much....

so Have you ever .......

 

[ZeeOSix]

The car manufacturer would have to prove that the aftermarket filter caused the failure in order to deny the factory warranty from such a failure.

If it was the aftermarket filter's fault and could be proven as such, then the filter maker's warranty would cover the damage. Know that weird off brand filters makers are probably not going to cover you like a major brand aftermarket filter would (ie, Fram, WIX, Purolator, Mobil, etc).

 

[Baveux]

The car manufacturer would have to prove that the aftermarket filter caused the failure in order to deny the factory warranty from such a failure.

If it was the aftermarket filter's fault and could be proven as such, then the filter maker's warranty would cover the damage. Know that weird off brand filters makers are probably not going to cover you like a major brand aftermarket filter would (ie, Fram, WIX, Purolator, Mobil, etc).

I agree with everything you say but its theorical .... yes car manufacturer will have to prove that but to whom ? A judge ? because you know like me that they can drag you forever and raise sky high your level of stress and so, even if you have the law on your side

real life experience might be whole of a lot different , thats what I am looking for

 

[ZeeOSix]

Super rare instance - chances if getting struck by lightning is probably better. In the 10 years I've been here I don't recall anyone here having to "go to court" over a blown engine from an aftermarket oil filter failure. I do recall of one instance where a filter (don't recall brand) failed (piece of glue broke off) and caused an engine issue, but the aftermarket filter manufacturer agreed to fix the damage with no court action.

 

[Baveux]

Super rare instance - chances if getting struck by lightning is probably better. In the 10 years I've been here I don't recall anyone here having to "go to court" over a blown engine from an aftermarket oil filter failure. I do recall of one instance where a filter (don't recall brand) failed (piece of glue broke off) and caused an engine issue, but the aftermarket filter manufacturer agreed to fix the damage with no court action.

Ok now I am back to Fram TG7317 and or Wix 57356 LOL interesting discussion anyway , but hey, why not PH7317 ? Mitsu set the OCI at 8000km or 5 months, that should be good enough what do you think ?

 

[ZeeOSix]

Ok now I am back to Fram TG7317 and or Wix 57356 LOL interesting discussion anyway , but hey, why not PH7317 ? Mitsu set the OCI at 8000km or 5 months, that should be good enough what do you think ?

Yes, even a Fram PH (Extra Gaurd) would handle that OCI with ease (it's rated for 10K miles). And it's 95% @ 20u efficient (I'm betting better than an OEM filter) and has a silicone ADBV. Many people use the EG with no problems.

 

[Leo99]

Ok now I am back to Fram TG7317 and or Wix 57356 LOL interesting discussion anyway , but hey, why not PH7317 ? Mitsu set the OCI at 8000km or 5 months, that should be good enough what do you think ?

They built the car. They should know what's good enough. You sound very worried, though. What will it take to alleviate your stress?

 

[Baveux]

They built the car. They should know what's good enough. You sound very worried, though. What will it take to alleviate your stress?

A good shot of Fireball whiskey maybe

 

[el Nuke]

Your choice of fuel and the cumulative effects of burning it inside the engine are far more likely to cause a problem for which a warranty claim can be made to cover the repair.

Choose an oil filter and move on.

From here on out every minute you spend waffling on whether or not to use an aftermarket oil filter and which one to use is literally wasted time.

If you won’t listen to me, perhaps you’ll listen to what Sebastian Bach, lead singer of the hair metal band Skid Row, has to say about this. His lyrics (from their track Wasted Time off their album Monkey Business) are pretty clear on this subject:

“The sun will rise again, the earth will turn to sand
Creation's colors seem to fade to grey
And you'll see the sickly hands of time will write your final rhyme
And end your memory”

Indeed, Mr. Bach, indeed...

 

[haggler]

Everyday thousands of cars are getting aftermarket filters at quick lube spots, which use much lower quality filters than anything at walmart. I'd say you're fine, start worrying about the best oil for your car if you want a new ocd topic.

 

[Creekside]

A good shot of Fireball whiskey maybe

Worth a shot...always helps me.

 

[demarpaint]

It can happen, odds are extremely high it won't since most if not all aftermarket filters should pass muster, but there's always a slight possibility of something going wrong. Having said that, if you did have a problem it might take a long time to settle, and a lawyer since there will be a lot of finger pointing. Your car will most likely sit at the repair shop until the shop is certain they will get paid. I've used aftermarket oil filters for over 4 decades w/o issue, I doubt you'll have a problem that will destroy your engine.

 

[Baveux]

Your choice of fuel and the cumulative effects of burning it inside the engine are far more likely to cause a problem for which a warranty claim can be made to cover the repair.

Choose an oil filter and move on.

From here on out every minute you spend waffling on whether or not to use an aftermarket oil filter and which one to use is literally wasted time.

If you won’t listen to me, perhaps you’ll listen to what Sebastian Bach, lead singer of the hair metal band Skid Row, has to say about this. His lyrics (from their track Wasted Time off their album Monkey Business) are pretty clear on this subject:

“The sun will rise again, the earth will turn to sand
Creation's colors seem to fade to grey
And you'll see the sickly hands of time will write your final rhyme
And end your memory”

Indeed, Mr. Bach, indeed...

LOL I was expecting a lot from this board, but I never expected a Poet !!!!

Thanks for the experience and who cares what peoples think I have just ordered 5 x PH7317 ... they meet the spec,they work with synthetic oil they will last the OCI with room to spare , and they are dirt cheap ... Im done with the research of the Saint Graal of filter Im going back to mama Fram the former orange can of death !!

 

[haggler]

If the fram filters with "cardboard" end caps were so bad Honda wouldn't be using them for 2 OCI. Good choice.

 

[ABN_CBT_ENGR]

I agree with everything you say but its theorical .... yes car manufacturer will have to prove that but to whom ? A judge ? because you know like me that they can drag you forever and raise sky high your level of stress and so, even if you have the law on your side

real life experience might be whole of a lot different , thats what I am looking for

I'll give you real life real world experience from one who does global warranty issues and expert witness testimonies in failures.

This is a scenario based on your post and more of a process map- not "legal" advice since there is no specific "thing.

You have a car with a failed engine under warranty. You run filter "X" and use oil "Y".

The "assumption" here is that the OEM says the filter failed causing the damage, not a failure of the engine proper and will not honor a warranty. ( getting out of it) ( we will assume the company simply refuses to discuss it further)

(This is where people like me usually get involved)

You have every right to challenge that but the burden of proof is on you to show either the company is wrong or at least has a degree of responsibility. The company walks into the game as an 'expert" under law so you will need an 'expert' to challenge them.

In order for you to do that you will need to forensically examine all components to the failure ( the engine, the car history, the filter and the oil).

OK, you did and your 'expert' says its the filter ( lets say internally collapsed)

Now the OEM says go sue the filter manufacturer and they are off the hook.

repeat all above steps

The filter OEM says the oil chemistry degraded the filter so go sue them.

repeat all steps above

Warranties are tricky things but they generally only prorate replace an article against defects in material/workmanship with no further liability. State/Federal laws ( vary by state) also determine limits too so what may work in Ga. might not even be possible in Wa. (Warranty is its own science)

Bottom line is, in every adverse scenario, YOU will be the claimant/plaintiff and the burden of proof is on you ( and expense)

I can tell you that "proving" ( to a legal standard) that part "X" caused something (to the legal standard of preponderance of evidence or beyond reasonable doubt if criminal) is a VERY high bar indeed.

So, if a company really stands their ground- you would need to make a true value based "is it worth it" decision to proceed.

 

[ABN_CBT_ENGR]

After thought

Depending on the circumstances, companies know they engage in a fight of attrition and normally they will win just because of the depth of the pocket. Other choose not to fight for fear of brand damage. Some have a policy to fight regardless because its like negotiating with terrorists-they feel to not to is to invite more. A few have a "nuisance threshold" where they just settle.

Then when you start assigning liability, fault, collateral damage and degrees of responsibility- the knives come out.

There are literally millions of things that can happen and 1 act can spin it on a dime

 

[Job]

I don’t understand how you will take a filter company to court with you to fight a car company.

 

[Baveux]

I'll give you real life real world experience from one who does global warranty issues and expert witness testimonies in failures.

This is a scenario based on your post and more of a process map- not "legal" advice since there is no specific "thing.

You have a car with a failed engine under warranty. You run filter "X" and use oil "Y".

The "assumption" here is that the OEM says the filter failed causing the damage, not a failure of the engine proper and will not honor a warranty. ( getting out of it) ( we will assume the company simply refuses to discuss it further)

(This is where people like me usually get involved)

You have every right to challenge that but the burden of proof is on you to show either the company is wrong or at least has a degree of responsibility. The company walks into the game as an 'expert" under law so you will need an 'expert' to challenge them.

In order for you to do that you will need to forensically examine all components to the failure ( the engine, the car history, the filter and the oil).

OK, you did and your 'expert' says its the filter ( lets say internally collapsed)

Now the OEM says go sue the filter manufacturer and they are off the hook.

repeat all above steps

The filter OEM says the oil chemistry degraded the filter so go sue them.

repeat all steps above

Warranties are tricky things but they generally only prorate replace an article against defects in material/workmanship with no further liability. State/Federal laws ( vary by state) also determine limits too so what may work in Ga. might not even be possible in Wa. (Warranty is its own science)

Bottom line is, in every adverse scenario, YOU will be the claimant/plaintiff and the burden of proof is on you ( and expense)

I can tell you that "proving" ( to a legal standard) that part "X" caused something (to the legal standard of preponderance of evidence or beyond reasonable doubt if criminal) is a VERY high bar indeed.

So, if a company really stands their ground- you would need to make a true value based "is it worth it" decision to proceed.

Man o man !! that cant be clearer there is so many way for a car manufacturer to get out of trouble that its not even funny.


In conclusion no matter what one can do, we are always screwed

Anyways thanks a millions for your time , it was a really interesting response to my question.

 

[FordMan59]

If I was concerned about such a problem I'd just pay an extra couple dollars for the manufacturers filter. I've used all kinds of filter over the 45 years and approximately 1 million miles I've driven and never had a filter failure that I know of. If I did have a failure of any kind it didn't do any significant damage.

 

[Baveux]

I don’t understand how you will take a filter company to court with you to fight a car company.

Sorry I did not express myself properly in my broken frenchglish from Quebec ...

I meant taking a filter company to court if the car manufacturer refuse the claim. The result can be like the filter company is by your side in court , even unnoficially if they can prove the car manufacturers assumption are wrong by showing that their filter was not defective at all ...

but the car maker can also claim thats the oil ... the air filter .... the full moon ...

anyway I understand myself