Oil filter SCAMS

[dropitby]

I read this on another site and wonder how many of us just depend on a company not to rip us off with this kind of crime. :Just a warning to the newbies and a reminder to the oldies, the PF35L's you're seeing/buying may be the "bogus" variety that Delco is foisting off on an unsuspecting public. I did some fact-finding last year after Chris Chow noticed that the PF35L's I forwarded to him (from Dal at Lambert Buick) didn't match the one he already had. The new filters were much lighter and generally less sturdy appearing, and didn't have the readily visible spot welds on the top. Delco swears that the filtering ability of the "new" PF35Ls is just as good as the originals, but I don't think they're being entirely honest with us. This all happened because Delco switched to an "offshore" plant for the filters. They are taking the product from this new source that comes the closest to the PF35L specs and labeling it as a PF35L. Caveat emptor.

 

[Ugly3]

Every company that wants to be in business 10 years from now is trying to find a way to reduce the cost of their products every day. You can bet the farm that Purolator has a team of engineers working on cost reductions right now. So does Delco, so does GE, so does everyone. One of the most valuable "assets" any company has in their reputation in the marketplace. In my experience, more time and money is spent testing cost reduction suggestions for product quality and longevity than is spent coming up with the idea in the first place. One person sees a product with 4 spotwelds in place of the old 5 spotwelds and figures the product has been cheapened and is functionally suspect. Another person remarks, gee I have been buying this product that has met my needs for 5 years and the price has not gone up, the company is really doing a great job for me. Do all implemented cost reductions work out "properly", not a chance. Did the company intentially put an inferrior product in the marketplace, I doubt it. Murphy lives!

 

[Matt_S]

Are you sure this was really a Delco filter??? http://www.gmgoodwrench.com/PartsAccessories/CounterfeitParts.html

 

[novadude]

Excellent post, Ugly3. You must be a fellow engineer!

 

[dropitby]

A quote from Seinfeld : not that theres anything wrong with that, This quote came off the same site and its ok for them to offer a believable quote after all it may be true. The thing I guess you have to watch for in a re-badged filter like a Castrol or any of the car company brands is that they can change and you don’t know it, they can go to a cheaper design next year if some company offers them a better deal. I’ve heard of this happening.I know from who, where well I don't have the answers but that holds true with all products its a crap shoot.Can we buy AMSOIL S2K today and SOMEONE is out there assuming they must have reformulated it because of something they see or heard.

 

[427Z06]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ugly3: Every company that wants to be in business 10 years from now is trying to find a way to reduce the cost of their products every day. You can bet the farm that Purolator has a team of engineers working on cost reductions right now. So does Delco, so does GE, so does everyone. One of the most valuable "assets" any company has in their reputation in the marketplace. In my experience, more time and money is spent testing cost reduction suggestions for product quality and longevity than is spent coming up with the idea in the first place. One person sees a product with 4 spotwelds in place of the old 5 spotwelds and figures the product has been cheapened and is functionally suspect. Another person remarks, gee I have been buying this product that has met my needs for 5 years and the price has not gone up, the company is really doing a great job for me. Do all implemented cost reductions work out "properly", not a chance. Did the company intentially put an inferrior product in the marketplace, I doubt it. Murphy lives!

---

I partially agree with what you say here, but I've seen something more disheartening over the last several years. And I believe a lot of what I have seen is due to $.35/hour developing world labor costs along with short sightedness of today's managers/leaders in corporations. It seems like everything we learned in the past 50+ years to improve quality and lower costs is being thrown out the window as corporations that stay in this country, try to compete with the above mentioned labor rates, lack of labor laws, non-existent pollution standards, and a consumer in the developing world who doesn't expect the same level of quality we do. What ends up happening is stupid decisions are made to cut short term costs which really ends up hurting quality and then eventually end up being less efficient cost wise. The saying "penny wise and pound foolish" comes to mind here. All this is covered up with huge marketing budgets that try to convince the unsuspecting younger consumers that all is great. No problem for the leaders/managers as by then they will have gotten all their big bonuses for their actions, the plant will close and move overseas, and then not only will production workers be out of a job, but many white collar workers, including engineers. This is really sick behavior. It's like foregoing the cost of a life preserving medicine, so you can enjoy life more with the cash you saved, only you're dead in a few years. Today, it seems like my fellow engineers and I have to battle management on a daily basis on their stupid cost cutting ideas. We continually try to show them how we can improve quality, lower costs, AND, make an engineers life less miserable, but it seems more and more it just falls on deaf ears as they crank up their propaganda machine for upper level management with lip service versions of six-sigma and the like. Here's an example of what we see in terms of quality today. You can now go out and buy a 27" color TV for $200. That same size color TV would of cost you $500 12 years ago. Wow, you think, look how they improved the efficiency in how they produce that product. But if you look a little deeper you discover a few unpleasant side effects. Today's TV will have a 90 day warranty, 1 year on the tube and will have a substantially higher OOTB return rate and lower MTBF and a crappier distorted picture. The TV from 12 years ago had a 3 year warranty, 5 years on the tube, nice distortion free picture, a low OOTB return rate and higher MTBF and is probably still working if you have one. I'll get off my soapbox now.

 

[Bill Kapaun]

quote:

---

Originally posted by dropitby: I read this on another site and wonder how many of us just depend on a company not to rip us off with this kind of crime. Exactly what crime? Federal, State, Local??? How much jail time/fine for committing this crime? :Just a warning to the newbies and a reminder to the oldies, the PF35L's you're seeing/buying may be the "bogus" variety that Delco is foisting off on an unsuspecting public. I did some fact-finding last year after Chris Chow noticed that the PF35L's I forwarded to him (from Dal at Lambert Buick) didn't match the one he already had. The new filters were much lighter and generally less sturdy appearing, and didn't have the readily visible spot welds on the top. Since Delco uses at least 3 different suppliers, what's bogus? Less sturdy appearing? So what! Delco swears that the filtering ability of the "new" PF35Ls is just as good as the originals, but I don't think they're being entirely honest with us. Since you did your fact finding, what are the FACTS? This all happened because Delco switched to an "offshore" plant for the filters. They are taking the product from this new source that comes the closest to the PF35L specs and labeling it as a PF35L. Caveat emptor. Just where is this offshore plant? You did do fact finding didn't you?

---

 

[dropitby]

Your right to use the word crime means they broke the law. I meant crime in a general sense not a literal sense. If a company finds a way to get away with passing off a one time quality product to put it on the shelf as something other than that is a crime in only they are trying to cheapen their product. If they put it out as another aftermarket product that is OK. If I buy my PURE ONE filter I shouldent have to examine it to see if they found a way to cheapen it up.

 

[Ray H]

The TV from 12 years ago had to cost more to cover the 3-yr. warranty. Now you're on your own after 90 days. So what? That doesn't mean the set automatically takes a dump on the 91st day, or even the 1,095th day for that matter. And there is a certain logic to just replacing the set that does fail after the limited warranty expires. It's not hard to exceed the cost of a replacement set to cover the "TV Service Technicians' Benevolent Association" and their companion "Widows' & Orphans' Education & Cool Things Fund" that they seem to believe are entitlements for sitting through trade school. And even then, half the time, the repairs are shoddy. (which might explain why the manufacturers made the decision to cut the warranties back in the first place about 10 years ago or so...) [ August 29, 2004, 12:44 AM: Message edited by: Ray H ]

 

[427Z06]

Ray H, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Leave the TV repairman outta of the equation, build a higher quality set with a better picture, longer MTBF, lower OOTB failures, increase the warranty to 5 years and just replace the ones that fail during the warranty period. Sure the cost would double, but I believe that the consumer would be getting a far better value and the Corps would be making the same amount of money. And in any event, I was using TVs as just one example. Let me ask you this, would you be just as supportive of the $200 TV paradigm if it's applied to your vehicles? If you are, be happy, it's happening as we debate this issue.

 

[Ugly3]

The "market" determines the selling price of the TV, car, fridg, or whatever. If enough people were willing to pay $1,000 for a 27" TV there would be several companies competing for the sales $$. Look at the auto industry. People wanted big SUVs and they got them. They paid big $$ for them, but they got them. When the market changes to some other type vehicle (hybrid, economy, power, etc) the auto companies will provide those vehicles. The market determines the products that will be produced. The market determines the selling price of the products. We are in a global economy today. I just heard a VP from Texas Instruments say that 80% of their chip sales are exported. We better get used to it and understand that we can not pay $40.00 an hour to employees when the competition is paying $2.00. The oceans don't protect us any more. We have to provide a better value in the marketplace or we will be "belly up".

 

[427Z06]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ugly3: We better get used to it and understand that we can not pay $40.00 an hour to employees when the competition is paying $2.00. The oceans don't protect us any more. We have to provide a better value in the marketplace or we will be "belly up".

---

That's my point Ugly3. We have to compete in an unfair competition. China pays it's production workers $.35/hr, we pay our $8.50/hr, and that doesn't include the lack of labor laws, health care costs, non-existent pollution standards, etc. I contend we CAN compete as long as we work smarter, not harder. But instead what I see is short-sighted and foolish cost cutting. And then when quality suffers and inefficiencies go up, these brainic VP and CEOs come out and preach the "you better work harder as we're in a global competition" crap. It just ticks me off that they use this excuse for the stupid decisions they've made (which they got handsome bonuses for) that actually put us in a worst position.

 

[Thomas Pyrek]

When I went to China some of the people asked me why Americans pay so much for low quality goods. The quality of even the cheapest electronics for domestic sale in China appeared to be pretty good.

 

[Lubricious]

Are there still any TV repairmen left in business? I agree when name-branded companies use a cheaper and more shoddy manufacturer, under it's own label---the consumer is the one that loses. Most people buy the brands they know, they don't always check for quality. [ August 29, 2004, 07:11 PM: Message edited by: Lubricious ]

 

[Spector]

A large part of the problem lies in the American public, for the most part all they care about is the cost,thus the wal marts, Lowe's of the world versus the local great service hardware store etc. As long as all Americans want is price over quality and service the companies will keep on producing crap and we will keep complaining about it, but also seem to keep buing it. Americans are now trained to beleeive if it costs more it is a rip off! For the most part in this world, you get what you pay for.

 

[427Z06]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Spector: For the most part in this world, you get what you pay for.

---

Quality is rarely inexpensive. But high price doesn't always insure quality.